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Sent:	01 May 2000 15:59
To:	kal1@lineone.net
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Subject: Re: Walking Boots
From: Daniel Tuck (daniel.tuck@net.ntl.com)

The latest Storm Attaks are 120???

<sp@sunking.screaming.net> wrote in message
news:3902C32B.47552EF9@sunking.screaming.net...
>
>
> Peter Hicks wrote:
>
> > "Bruce" <Bruce@winnershtowers.freeuk.com> wrote in message
> > news:3901952E.C25830EB@winnershtowers.freeuk.com...
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I'm looking for a pair of walking boots in the sub-100 pounds price
> > > range. I dont do a great deal of walking at the moment,
> >
> > Hullo Bruce
> >
> > If you don't do a great deal, have yoou considered a lighter, Gortex
lined
> > boot?
> >
> > The Berghaus Storm springs to mind.....You can actually break 'em in
befre
> > they break-in your feet!
> >
> > All the best
> >
> > Pete
>
> Bruce,
> I've got some Berghaus storm attack boots. Every one says Goretex starts
> leaking eventually,
> but mine are still ok after a year of moderate useage. Just make sure you
cut
> your toe nails and
> knock the mud of 'em after an outing and they should last quite a while.
> Infact I was quite amazed at first, they are like wellies in the water, as
> comfortable as trainers,
> and not sweaty either.. On the down side they do seem to get quite heavy
esp.
> when soaked in
> water, so keep 'em well proofed if poss.
>
> Simon
>






Subject: Peak District!
From: Daniel Tuck (daniel.tuck@net.ntl.com)

Hi everyone,

What is the Peak Disrtcit like at the moment? I'm thinking of going for a
few days Mon to Thurs ??? Any suggestions or tips, we plan to stay in Edale.

Thanks in advance.






Subject: Re: Monopod/ walking stick idea
From: John Fryatt (jrf@dircon.co.uk)

There is actually a Trekker monpod.

John

Mike Chirnside <michael.chirnside@dtn.ntl.com> wrote in message
news:fTHL4.466$In2.8908@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
> "The Reids" <gillardreid@mcmail.com> wrote in message
> news:38fd5139.3558184@news.mcmail.com...
> > Duncan wrote:
> > Anybody tried the "Jacko Royal" or "Benbo Trekker"
>
> The Benbo Trekker is, in fact, a tripod - not a monopod!
>
>






Subject: Re: GPS bargains - where to buy?
From: Maurice Franklin (mauricef@tesco.net)

Try www.on-line-marine.com

"Peter Hicks" <hasbeen@eurobell.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8dpref$2jdu$3@slrn.eurobell.net...
> Greetings all
>
> I'm afraid I've only just found you, as I was searching under Hiking
(silly
> me)
>
> I'll apologise in advance for asking for info. that's, no doubt, been
> provided many times already:
> Can anyone suggest where I can get a Magellan GPS 315 or Garmin GPS 12 at
a
> reasonable price?
> Also, does anyone have a strong preference, or alternative, for one of
> these?
>
> Thanks for any help you can come up with
>
> Regards
>
> Pete
>
>






Subject: Re: Route up Ben Trilleachan
From: Surfer! (nevis-view@nospam.demon.co.uk)

In article <3903413A.4B68@netcomuk.co.uk>, caluma@netcomuk.co.uk writes
>Hi. I'm going to be up in Argyll next weekend and was thinking of doing a 
>few of the hills if I get a chance. One of my targets is Ben Trilleachan 
>at the head of Loch Etive. Does anyone have any advice as to the best 
>route onto it?.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Cal

When I went up this hill we drove to Loch Etive and parked there.  We
followed the climbers track to the bottom of the Slabs, and continued
past them from where we scrambled to the top.  We walked back along the
top of the slabs and down their N. flank, so we did a circuit of them.
However the last bit of the scramble up is not to be recommended if you
don't have a head for heights.  In that case go up the right (N) flank
of the slabs.

PS this was birth of midge country - we were being eaten alive in May!  

I would also suggest extreme caution in thick mist - you don't want to
suddenly find yourself on the fast route down the slabs.  That is
usually fatal.
>

-- 
Surfer!




Subject: Re: Bearings
From: Neal Milne (neal@njtm.freeservenospam.co.uk)


"Raymond.LaPorte" <raymond.laporte@tesco.net> wrote in message
news:8dngl5$l30$2@epos.tesco.net...
> Scoff if you must but I am a fair weather walker though from time to
> time I like to practice my compass skills just in case of foul.
>
> Last week on Dartmoor I picked out a route covering 6 tors and was
> able to check my bearings against them in fine weather. In several
> cases I found clear footpaths which deviated from my bearing but ended
> up at my destination, these avoided rocks, gorse and bogs.
>
> Now suppose I am out there in poor visibility, must I stick to
> following my compass bearing and overcome these obstacles or should I
> take a chance that the path I see will lead to where I want to go? I
> tried to assess path direction trends with my compass but the twists
> and turns made this difficult.
>
> Ray

The beauty of GPS is you can go off track to follow a path or go round an
obstacle and still get back on track. In fact a decent GPS will tell you how
far you are off track as well. Much easier than farting around with box
bearings.

Neal






Subject: Re: Monopod/ walking stick idea
From: David Kilpatrick (david@maxwellplace.demon.co.uk)

Re:

>>I have been looking at monopods recently, for photography and use with
>>my birding scope. I've also been looking at some lightweight,
>>collapsible, walking or hiking sticks. They are remarkably similar.
>>
>>I wonder why some enterprising manufacturer hasn't made a combined unit,
>>with a removable walking stick handle (using a tripod screw fitting); a
>>grip- handle on the stem, below the threaded fitting, or a flip- over
>>head of some kind. Or have they.
>>
>>Alternatively, a separate handle fitting, which could be attached to any
>>monopod, again using the screw fitting.
>>
Billingham market exactly such an item which has been shown for about three
years at Focus on imaging. Also Manfrotto do a combined walking stick
monopod. Benbo monopods are provided with a cap which fits the top and
coverts the tripod screw head into a ball, very comfortable to hold, for
walking. Quite a common idea actually and already well catered for.

DK

--
Read about our photo magazines: http://www.freelancephotographer.co.uk/
Personal website: http://www.maxwellplace.demon.co.uk/pandemonium/




Subject: Re: Summer's here
From: W.D.Grey (bill@graigroad.demon.co.uk)

In article <38f59e75.0@news.netdirect.net.uk>, Matti Lamprhey
<matti@polka.bikini> writes
>I'd be interested in views from this group on this thorny subject!
Interesting! I'd never thought of it meaning the Mayflower.

I always considered to mean ' Don't take a chance on the weather till
May (he month) is out'


-- 
Bill
http://www.graigroad.demon.co.uk




Subject: Re: Guides and Maps
From: Charles Frederick Wildgoose (wildgoose@zetnet.co.uk)

Duncan Gray wrote 

[snip]

> My geography of England isn't that good, but Matlcok must be somewhere
near
> Manchester.

It's about fifty miles or so away. I believe that Jarvis Books have a good
reputation though. Certainly Matlock's nearer to the Peak District and
Manchester being no more than a couple of miles or so outside the boundary.

Charlie. 




Subject: Re: Peak District Campsites
From: Ian E (ian.enoiaspam@tesco.net.invalid)

In article <8dvqfu$nsh$1@plutonium.btinternet.com>, "Ian
Allman" <ian.allman@btinternet.com> wrote:
> Can anyone suggest any nice campsites in the Peak
> District.

Kinder Road, Hayfield, High Peak MR 110/048868 Telephone
01663 745394.

Hayfield is a medium sized village with a few shops and
some good pubs. The village is 5 mins walk from this cosy
and beautifully situated site to the West of Kinder Scout.
I've stayed here many times. The site takes dogs. The site
belongs to the Caravanning & Camping Club but they take non-
members. Happily because of the location (area of natural
beauty and all), vans are banned.

Ian


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Subject: Re: Peak District!
From: Charles Frederick Wildgoose (wildgoose@zetnet.co.uk)

Neil Tonks wrote

[snip]

> It's a little wet in places - I suspect Kinder and
> Bleaklow will be, er, rather soggy - but otherwise it's fine.  No snow as
> far as I'm aware, as it's been pretty mild the last few days.

Yes, I'll certainly agree with that. I'm quite surprised how wet some of
the paths are - and boggy. I've recently had a word with the Peak Park
Rangers about the possibility of them doing some resurfacing work on one or
two paths that get a lot of hammer in the vicinity of Monsal Head. Pennyunk
Lane (an ancient walled trackway) that runs up from Ashford-in-the-Water is
particularly mucky at the moment.

Charlie
 




Subject: Re: Cashpoints on Pennine Way and Dales Way
From: Martin Richardson (martin@thequiff.demon.co.uk)

In article <UI3TVDAoR2A5Ewfa@grove5.demon.co.uk>, Ian Wood
<a.i.wood@grove5.demon.co.uk> writes
>As an alternative to finding/using cashpoints when on long distance
>walks you could open a National Savings Bank ordinary account at you
>local Post Office. Once you receive your passbook you can then withdraw
>up to 100 per day from any of the 19,000 Post Offices in the U.K.
>Probably a bit easier to find than cashpoints.
>

Post Offices have an annoying habit of only being open during walking
hours. But still a good idea.

-- 
Martin Richardson

Don't blame me when they build mobile phone masts on Schiehallion, 
Glaramara and Tryfan - to improve coverage.

Looking West over Pule Hill - south over the Royston Vasey local shop.




Subject: Windproof Fleece
From: dearp (dearp@cableinet.co.uk)

I have about 80 pounds to spend.
Can someone recommend a windproof fleece

Regards

Phil D.





Subject: Which way to Car-nisp...?
From: Paul Simonite (stationhouse@zetnet.co.uk)

After a splendid sunny walk up Canisp (Sutherland Corbett) on 
Saturday we returned to the car which was parked at the beginning of 
the ascent footpath.  To our surprise a pair of young lads approached 
us and asked (in an Eton accent) "Excuse me but have you tackled 
Car-nisp today?"  We replied that we had and that it had been a fine 
walk. "Then can you tell us where the walk begins? We cannot find the 
path."  We pointed the lads in the right direction and gave them a 
few tips on the easiest route and watched as they followed the path 
for a few hundred metres before wandering off over the wrong burn!  
They realised their mistake and corrected their route soon enough but 
the time was 16:00hrs and we did wonder if they really had enough 
daylight to complete the walk.  
-- 
Cheers,

Compo

Today's weather forecast for the Northern Scotland: 
Cold, Wet and Windy :)





Subject: Re: Windproof Fleece
From: Surfer! (nevis-view@nospam.demon.co.uk)

In article <39042EEE.27A27A35@cableinet.co.uk>, dearp
<dearp@cableinet.co.uk> writes
>I have about 80 pounds to spend.
>Can someone recommend a windproof fleece
>
>Regards
>
>Phil D.
>

I have a North Cape pullover fleece (Polartex) with a Pertex windproof
outer/inner - it's reversible.  It's hardly heavier than a normal fleece
and when windproof side out has a handy chest pocket.  I don't know if
these are still available but would be checking out.  It would have been
about the price you are aiming for but I got it super cheap in Fort
William!

-- 
Surfer!




Subject: Re: Windproof Fleece
From: Peter Clinch (p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk)

dearp wrote:
> 
> I have about 80 pounds to spend.
> Can someone recommend a windproof fleece

My personal recommendation is don't bother, but read on...

Windstopper and Windbloc are the most common flavours and in real terms
aren't too different.  Since the materials are much of a muchness, buy
according to fit and style.

Why don't I like them... compared to conventional fleeces they're more
expensive, heavier and much slower drying.  Though they do keep water
out better than a normal fleece, once they do get wet they have less
insulation value and the tedious drying time makes them just about
useless.  Also, because the fabric is a sandwich of two very thin
fleeces over a membrane, the individual fleece layers aren't actually
that tough compared to a conventtional fleece.  I managed to remove all
the pile from the outer of a pair of windbloc gloves in a week of
aggressive poling while XC skiing, and I went trhough the ends of the
fingers on windstopper gloves inside of 3 months.  Polartec 200 gloves I
have are still going strong after several years.

And on top of that, if you get a conventional fleece and a light
windshell that gives you more flexibility, and it probably won't cost,
weigh or bulk any more.  Another option around this price mark is a
Buffalo (or similar from Montane, Mardale etc.).  Lacks the sartorial
elegance of a typical windproof fleece jacket, but is far more use to
most people up a hill, longer lasting, quicker drying, warm when it's
wet.

I find Buffalo (and windstopper, for that matter) a bit too hot (very
much a personal thing, I seem to be very much at the "running hot" end
of things), and much prefer Ultrafleece (same thing as Karisma and
Cher).  It isn't windproof, but it's more windproof than the normal
Polartec fleeces, and lighter and much quicker drying.  It isn't as
thermally efficient under a shell, but I find it windproof *enough* to
get by without one almost all of the time.

Pete.
-- 
Peter Clinch			University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637	Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177		Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk	http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/




Subject: Re: Windproof Fleece
From: Niall Harran (niallharran@nasuwt.net)


"Peter Clinch" <p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:390446B7.A857086A@dundee.ac.uk...
> dearp wrote:

<snip>

>Though they do keep water
> out better than a normal fleece, once they do get wet they have less
> insulation value and the tedious drying time makes them just about
> useless.

Anyway isn't it possible to waterproof a fleece using a liquid for the
washing machine?

<snip>

> And on top of that, if you get a conventional fleece and a light
> windshell that gives you more flexibility, and it probably won't cost,
> weigh or bulk any more.

Wholeheartadly agree. I usually carry a very light windshell that can be
taken off when too warm and takes away the chill in those "lazy winds".

Niall
--
In the mountains no-one counts the days.
                                      Chinese Proverb






Subject: Re: Some Variation
From: Peter Hicks (hasbeen@eurobell.co.uk)

HA!

The guru's on MTN say you shouldn't be using a GPS if'n you can't use a map
and cmpass proper!!..........................prats

> Nice not to have all this fiddling with a GPS though . . .
> --
> Gordon
>







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Subject: Re: The Thames Path
From: Glen McLean (gkmclean@garbage.cyberus.ca)

On Sat, 22 Apr 2000 14:49:03 -0700, Ian E
<ian.eNOiaSPAM@tesco.net.invalid> wrote:

>Folks,
>
>I've got the book - National Trail Guide "The Thames Path".
>I've got the accommodation guide. I've packed Jerome K
>Jerome "Three Men in a Boat". Travel arrangements courtesy
>of thetrainline.com have been made. The rucksack and boots
>are ready to go. Departure date is between three and ten
>weeks hence. Depending on work commitments. I'm fit and
>healthy.
>
>What I would REALLY appreciate is some tips from those that
>have perhaps been there before me..............................................

Ian, 

I did this in '93 from Barrier to Source. Probably the most satisfying
walk I have done in the U.K.  Took 9 days. 
Did it solo, and found it fascinating to see the character of the
river change daily. 
Accomodation was a bit hard to find on the outskirts of London
(Richmond, etc). Rather "up-market" areas, that don't cater well to
walkers, just expensive hotels around. As you go upriver though, it
gets better.
There was a fair bit of road walking in '93, but I understand that
most of those parts have been rerouted through new footpaths. 
Also, on walks of that nature, most guides have you going downriver to
civilization, but I much prefer going out into the country leaving the
big city behind. After days of wandering in the quite and solitude,
all that traffic in London would be a bit of a letdown (for me at any
rate). Besides there are pubs (and a trainstation) at the finish
(well, near enough anyway).

The only useful guide at the time was the Rambler's Assoc. "The Thames
Walk" as it was not quite an "official" path at this time. This guide
was more than sufficient though.

1st day through some of the old docklands area was a bit
rough-and-tough looking the 1st day, but didn't have a hard time fromn
anyone. A lot more should be rebuilt by now. Made it to Putney 1st
night, stayed at pub just off the path near St.Mary's Church.

At Richmond things start getting more relaxed as you are no out in
something looking like countryside. 2nd night stayed in pub near
Weybridge.

Day 3 made it past Windsor and Eton to Maidenhead. I recall doing a
fair bit of roadwalking around here it seems. A bit frustrating as I
could look across at nice country paths on the grounds of Windsor
Castle, but couldn't get at 'em.

Day 4 through Henley (lots of rowers to distract you, watch out for
rowing coaches cycling along the path shouting through megaphones to
crews in the water). Stayed just outside Sonning nr. Reading. 

Day 5 through Reading, Goring to Wallingford. (If you are tired of the
river here, you can change course and hit the Ridgeway). Quite built
up here, and path was sandwiched between railway and river. Didn't
make great time this day. Whether it was because of all the zigzagging
through towns or not can't remember.

Day 6 made it to Oxford. This stretch is where it gets much more
relaxing, more country, less bustle, no tourists (like me), except for
in Oxford itself, and the character of the river has changed a lot.   

After Oxford, things get really quiet, less recreational boats as it
is getting rather narrow. (Although I swear I was still seeing the
same boat every day  since day 2 going upriver). There were spots
around here where I could not hear any traffic or other sounds of
civilization(?). Maybe the odd farm tractor or dog barking.

Day 7 made it to Radcot Br. and stayed at an absolutely fantastic
pub/B&B (but can't remember the name, sorry), adjacent to bridge, and
across from civil war earthwork.. At his point I am really enjoying
myself. Radcot Br. is 12-14th C, so for a Canadian is fascinating. Try
to find one older than 1900 over here!, 

Day 8 through Lechlade and Cricklade I did a lot of roadwalking as not
all ROWs had been negotiated. Have read since it is much improved.
Watch out for quicksand (signs posted anyway) at Crickland Lakes.
Stayed at Ashton Keynes.

Day 9 made it to the source, sat in the fields for awhile
contemplating the walk and the scenery, and then to Kemble Station
(via pub of course).

I did not plan any of my stays. Started looking for B&B about 5:00pm,
but sometimes did not stop until 7 or so. Accomodation was 50/50 pubs
or B&Bs. Paid anywhere from 12.50UKP to 20.00UKP. Had only one bad pub
stay (no one up for breakfast, let myself out), no bad B&Bs (some just
better than others). Sorry, I didn't keep names of where I stayed. I
think only the 2nd night was a problem finding a room. Very expensive
hotels and guest houses through here, not designed for ramblers. Found
a B&B full, but the owner gave me a ride to another B&B which was just
fine. That owner gave me a ride a couple of miles back to the path the
next morning.

Need more specific info, catch me here or email me.

Enjoy your walk.......................... 


Glen McLean
Ottawa, Canada
(Remove the "garbage." from my address)




Subject: Re: Windproof Fleece
From: sp@sunking.screaming.net (sp@sunking.screaming.net)

I got a windproof fleece from m*llets , it was half price from 75 quid a
couple of years ago.
I would say that it is very smart looking. and definiatly wind proof. It
has a thin layer
of polypropalyne ( wet suit material ) It  is obviously not as
breathable as a normal fleece.
When worn on hot days it is too sweaty. Also on non windy days it is a
bit sweaty.
I agree with the other posts that it doesnt dry as fast as say a
polartec fleec. This is only
because it doesnt let so much air circulate around though. Anyway I
would not
specifically recomend it really, since it is not as warm as a normal
fleece.
Its excellent on windy days when its not raining or for boating for
example
when you are constantly in the wind, but not usually worth the space in
my bag.

dearp wrote:

> I have about 80 pounds to spend.
> Can someone recommend a windproof fleece
>
> Regards
>
> Phil D.





Subject: Re: Peak District!
From: Daniel Tuck (daniel.tuck@net.ntl.com)

Thanks for the replies, I leave tommorow, I'll let you all know how I get
on.

P.S Did you know the Train is only 32.00 - Wow hey.

Cya.

Charles Frederick Wildgoose <wildgoose@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:01bfadcc$70bafee0$df28f7c2@windows95...
> Neil Tonks wrote
>
> [snip]
>
> > It's a little wet in places - I suspect Kinder and
> > Bleaklow will be, er, rather soggy - but otherwise it's fine.  No snow
as
> > far as I'm aware, as it's been pretty mild the last few days.
>
> Yes, I'll certainly agree with that. I'm quite surprised how wet some of
> the paths are - and boggy. I've recently had a word with the Peak Park
> Rangers about the possibility of them doing some resurfacing work on one
or
> two paths that get a lot of hammer in the vicinity of Monsal Head.
Pennyunk
> Lane (an ancient walled trackway) that runs up from Ashford-in-the-Water
is
> particularly mucky at the moment.
>
> Charlie
>






Subject: Re: Summer's here
From: W.D.Grey (bill@graigroad.demon.co.uk)

In article <dQP3WBAtf$A5EwOK@shifnal53.demon.co.uk>, Chris Smith
<smithcj@shifnal53.demon.co.uk> writes
>In article <38f59e75.0@news.netdirect.net.uk>, Matti Lamprhey
><matti@polka.bikini> writes
>>"Graham Derbyshire" <derbyshire@family27.freeserve.co.uk> wrote
>>>
>>>> well chilly. Nay cast a clout till May is out (As they say in Cumbria -
>>> don't know what the hell it means!)
>>
>>I say it means don't start stripping off until the hawthorn flowers, whilst
>>others (championed by a meteorologist) say wait until 1st June.
>
>>Matti
>>
>As the month of May finishes at the same moment whatever the latitude I
>go with the hawthorn theory.  I relied on the late flowering dark pink
>blossom of the hawthorn in my previous garden to tell me it was safe to
>put out tender plants etc.
>
Further enquiries have thrown up another meaning for "clout" a small
piece of rag, a patch, also many other meanings not necessarily to do
with cloth.

I would interpret the saying as  meaning do not discard any item of
clothing however small, till May is out, and I still think May refers to
the month. I rest my case, before the newsgroup police come for me.
-- 
Bill
http://www.graigroad.demon.co.uk




Subject: OS Grid & LandRanger grids
From: rfc (phantom@poboxes.com)

I had not realised there was a difference... where can I find some simple
info to help me understand the different grid systems?  I want to work with
a map and gps, and don't think I can manage Lat/Long!!

thanks
rfc







Subject: Re: Windproof Fleece
From: Alan Ashton (am.ashton@virgin.net)

Peter Clinch wrote:
> 
> dearp wrote:
> >
> > I have about 80 pounds to spend.
> > Can someone recommend a windproof fleece
> 
> My personal recommendation is don't bother, but read on...
> 

Well, I bought my North Cape windproof fleece some six years ago (list
120 pounds-ish, but I got a hefty discount), and reckon it one of my
best purchases.  Wear it every time I'm out in the hills, winter and
summer. It's got pretty damp at times (mist etc) but never soaking
wet...that's why I carry a water-proof jacket.

Alan




Subject: Re: TR: Liathach
From: gsquared (chris_awilliamsnochspam@yahoo.com.invalid)

I am an entusiastic but inexperienced hillwalker.Would your
route be OK for me to retrace in July.

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Subject: Re: Guides and Maps
From: Janet Moxley (janet@moxley.fsnet.co.uk)


http://abebooks.com  have links to loads of secondhand bookers sellers all
over the place (UK/US) so if you know the title you can get just about
anything
--
Cheers
Janet

Niall Harran <niallharran@nasuwt.net> wrote in message
news:nBGM4.6690$xA.17327@news.iol.ie...
> I've done one walk in PD from an edition of last year's 'Trail' and I am
> keen to do more.
>
> Can anyone suggest any good and possibly cheapish books and/or guide-maps
> (!) ? Also is there anywhere to purchase secondhand maps and guides either
> online or in the Greater Manchester area? Come to think of it can you buy
> secondhand books or anything online at all????
>
> Recycle and re-use - its good for the soul/karma/whatever!
>
> Niall
> --
> In the mountains no-one counts the days.
>                                     Chinese Proverb
>
>






Subject: Re: Windproof Fleece
From: Surfer! (nevis-view@nospam.demon.co.uk)

In article <3904631C.CC0DC8EC@sunking.screaming.net>,
sp@sunking.screaming.net writes
>I got a windproof fleece from m*llets , it was half price from 75 quid a
>couple of years ago.
>I would say that it is very smart looking. and definiatly wind proof. It
>has a thin layer
>of polypropalyne ( wet suit material )

Wet suits are made of neoprene, not polypropylene!

> It  is obviously not as
>breathable as a normal fleece.
>When worn on hot days it is too sweaty. Also on non windy days it is a
>bit sweaty.

I don't find that with my Pertex shell one, except that it's also warmer
and of course if I'm too warm I sweat more.

>I agree with the other posts that it doesnt dry as fast as say a
>polartec fleec.

I was surprised how much rain the Pertex keeps out.  And it also dries
quickly, though things like how the cuffs are constructed is very
important if you get really wet - the best are simply oversewn with an
elastic stitch.  It also helps if pockets are lined with Pertex instead
of more fleece material.


> This is only
>because it doesnt let so much air circulate around though. Anyway I
>would not
>specifically recomend it really, since it is not as warm as a normal
>fleece.
>Its excellent on windy days when its not raining or for boating for
>example
>when you are constantly in the wind, but not usually worth the space in
>my bag.
>
>dearp wrote:
>
>> I have about 80 pounds to spend.
>> Can someone recommend a windproof fleece
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Phil D.
>

-- 
Surfer!




Subject: Scarpa El Caps
From: Gavin Gilbert (gavin.gilbert@btinternet.com)

Has anyone tried these boots yet?  They look ideal for scrambling and
Kletterstieg but I'm a tad worried about the lack of a heel cutaway.  Any
comments about their performance on mud and wet grass?






Subject: Re: Monopod/ walking stick idea
From: David Kilpatrick (david@maxwellplace.demon.co.uk)

In article <fTHL4.466$In2.8908@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com> , "Mike 
Chirnside" <michael.chirnside@dtn.ntl.com> wrote:

> "The Reids" <gillardreid@mcmail.com> wrote in message
> news:38fd5139.3558184@news.mcmail.com...
>> Duncan wrote:
>> Anybody tried the "Jacko Royal" or "Benbo Trekker"
>
> The Benbo Trekker is, in fact, a tripod - not a monopod!
>
>
They also do a Trekker Monopod. Just gave one away as a prize. It's a
monopod based on the skinny Trekker leg profile. DK

--
Read about our photo magazines: http://www.freelancephotographer.co.uk/
Personal website: http://www.maxwellplace.demon.co.uk/pandemonium/




Subject: Re: Kerry
From: ben.madigan (ben.madigan@tinyonline.co.uk)

There is at least one largish pay to use camp site in Killarney, there is
also one on the Northern coast of the Dingle peninsula.  There is also any
amount of free wild camping.  For example along the path approaching
Carrauntoohil from the North, though you will have to pay the farmer a small
amount to leave a car in his yard.
Have you tried the Irish Tourist Board  (Bord Failte).

Regards


johardman <johardman@tinyworld.co.uk> wrote in message
news:38fedd84_3@news2.vip.uk.com...
> Does anybody know about camp site availability in Ring of Kerry/Dingle
> peninsula areas
>
> --
> Jo
>
>






Subject: Re: Mobile Phones
From: Tim Sheppard (tim_sheppard@nospam.hotmail.com)

There's an Orange repeater in Ambleside had no probs with signal strength.
hth - Tim

CHRIS KENWARD <KENWARDC@TGIS.CO.UK> wrote in message
news:956479191@fonix.org...
>
> Hi All
>
> Does anyone know how well GSM phones work in the Ambleside area? I am
> taking my computer with me and would like to be able to grab email in
> the evenings if possible.
>
> Regards
> Chris Kenward
> .






Subject: Wet Legs
From: Niall Harran (niallharran@nasuwt.net)

There's an ad in the most recent edition of Trail somewhere about waterproof
'traksters' aimed mainly at mountain bikers. Has anyone tried them out for
walking in this lovely showery April or even for MTB-ing.

Niall
--
In the mountains no-one counts the days.
                                      Chinese Proverb






Subject: Sshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
From: Niall Harran (niallharran@nasuwt.net)

You know that feeling when you are all alone in a tent in the middle of
nowhere and everything is dead quiet. You feel so close to nature with the
sounds of night animals and a bubbling stream (if you're lucky). Well its
like that now in a house in Donegal at 1.20am, with nothing but the whirring
of my CPU to keep me company and the almost insane ramblings of americans on
rec.arts.bodyart to lull me off to sleep.

Not as *sad* and *lonely* as it sounds and more peaceful than I would
expect.

Yours Philosophically

Norman No Mates
--
In the mountains no-one counts the days.
                                      Chinese Proverb






Subject: Re: Ladybower dam
From: Graham Attridge (graham@attridge.force9.co.uk)

Anticipating that the work will be complete by mid July

Graham Attridge

Nigel Crompton wrote in message ...
>
>Does anyone know if the construction work is complete, yet?
>
>(and, therefore, that the track around the southern shore to the
>western end of the dam has been re-opened.....)
>
>CU
>
>






Subject: Re: Windproof Fleece
From: Martin Richardson (martin@thequiff.demon.co.uk)

In article <390446B7.A857086A@dundee.ac.uk>, Peter Clinch
<p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk> writes
>dearp wrote:
>> 
>> I have about 80 pounds to spend.
>> Can someone recommend a windproof fleece
>
>My personal recommendation is don't bother, but read on...
>

Porbably agree with that sentiment. If you want a jacket that keeps out
the wind, rain and will keep you warm in winter try a Paramo. Bit more
expensive than you wanted to spend - and a bit warm on that one summer
day we tend to have each year - but does the biz the rest of the year. I
don't bother taking a fleece anymore - even in winter blizzards on top
of Ben MacDui. OK I might wear several other layers - but nought thick
like Polartec 300 - windproof or not.

-- 
Martin Richardson

Don't blame me when they build mobile phone masts on Schiehallion, 
Glaramara and Tryfan - to improve coverage.

Looking West over Pule Hill - south over the Royston Vasey local shop.




Subject: Re: Some Variation
From: Jeffrey Mazo (jeff@rheumatology.org.uk)

I use the same reminder. I grew up in the Pacific Northwest, where the
variation is about 17 deg. the other way, which caused me no end of
confusion when I moved over here.

Jeff

Peter Hicks wrote in message <8e1kp4$2vs5$1@slrn.eurobell.net>...
>Trevor
>
>It's not a mnemonic ('cause I always forget them) but even I can manage to
>remember:
>
>If you're going from Ground to Map, you're going from BIG to small, so you
>take away
>
>and vice versi see?.........Works for me, for a few more years yet, anyway.
>
>All the best
>
>Pete
>
>> So who has a good mnemonic for remembering map/compass,
>> compass/map add or subtract?
>>
>> --
>> Trevor Dennis
>
>






Subject: Re: TR: Liathach
From: Anthony Dyer (anthonyd@compsoc.man.ac.uk)



gsquared wrote:

> I am an entusiastic but inexperienced hillwalker.Would your
> route be OK for me to retrace in July.

If your're inexperienced you should start off with easier mountains. As I said
in the report, Liathach is probably the most serious mainland munro to tackle by
virtue of the fact that the easy routes on and off the mountain are very steep
and also few and far between.  Route finding in the mist is also said to be a
problem when getting off the chief summit of Liathach as you can easily be
following a false ridge off which ends with steep cliffs on all sides.

The descent route I took after turning back from the pinnacles cannot be
recommended.  The rest of the route I took is pretty much the standard route
most hillwalkers tackling the mountain would take - though still very steep.

In the end how confident you are with tackling the mountain depends on how well
you can cope with exposed scrambles.  I've got a good amount of hillwalking
experience for both winter and summer conditions - but scrambling over big drops
is still something I've yet to gain confidence in.

Anthony Dyer
http://www.compsoc.man.ac.uk/~anthonyd





Subject: Re: Tilley Hat
From: Peter Clinch (p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk)

Kevin West wrote:
> 
> Are they any good?

Yes, but expensive.  If you need a good sun hat (I am a slaphead that
burns easily, so I do), then they're very good as they're tough, long
lasting and comfortable.  Most people can probably make do with less if
they feel the budget being stretched too far though (mine is in fact a
US equivalent, an Ultimate, but my Tilley wearing friend is also an easy
burning slaphead).

Pete.
-- 
Peter Clinch			University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637	Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177		Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk	http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/




Subject: Re: Windproof Fleece
From: zeus@cix.compulink.co.uk (zeus@cix.compulink.co.uk)

mountain equipment ultrafleec base or guide jacket

Mark




Subject: Re: Information on footwear
From: Rob Devereux (rde@wpo.nerc.ac.uk)


"A. Farroll" <jarphar@farrolla.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3904ec38.6094369@news.freeserve.co.uk...
>   Can anyone please give me some information?
> I I do a lot of running and would like to go off road to do fell
>      running or oreinteering, plus i would like to do a bit of hill
>    walking.

Both Salomon, Merrell and North face do a range of approach/cross-boots that
will allow the freedom of a running shoe with the sturdiness and
breathability/waterproofing you expect with a boot.  The Salomon ones I have
looked at would be perfect for fell-running but I think might be a little
bendy for hill walking.

Rob







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Subject: Rambling
From: Matti Lamprhey (matti@polka.bikini)

I've just spotted a message in uk.culture.language.english on the origin of
the word "ramble".  If you are at all prudish, I advise you to refrain from
checking your dictionary.

Matti






Subject: Re: Tilley Hat
From: Gordon Harris (gordon@g3snx.demon.co.uk)

In article <3905711F.DFB8A554@dundee.ac.uk>, Peter Clinch
<p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk> writes
>Kevin West wrote:
>> 
>> Are they any good?
>
>Yes, but expensive.  If you need a good sun hat (I am a slaphead that
>burns easily, so I do), then they're very good as they're tough, long
>lasting and comfortable.  Most people can probably make do with less if
>they feel the budget being stretched too far though (mine is in fact a
>US equivalent, an Ultimate, but my Tilley wearing friend is also an easy
>burning slaphead).
>
I usually wear a baseball cap (with the Yorkshire Dales NP emblem), but
also have a Tilly, which has the considerable advantage of the chin and
neck laces which keep it on in all weathers.   I would not have bought
the widest brim version if I had known about the medium and small brims,
and would probably have bought stone colour rather than green.   ;-) 
-- 
Gordon





Subject: Re: Windproof Fleece
From: Peter Clinch (p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk)

zeus@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
> 
> mountain equipment ultrafleec base or guide jacket

Something against the Mountain Jacket, Mark?
Pete.
-- 
Peter Clinch			University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637	Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177		Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk	http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/




Subject: Re: The Thames Path
From: Rob Devereux (rde@wpo.nerc.ac.uk)

I'd also recommend the barrier to source route, although I have only walked
the bits through Berkshire and Oxfordshire.  If you want any accomodation
info for Reading to oxford or pub guides I can let you know.  One warning -
the river is very high at the moment following the weeks of rain and the
path might be impassable in places.

Rob

"Ian E" <ian.ellisNOiaSPAM@marks-and-spencer.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:08b3ac62.99854196@usw-ex0108-061.remarq.com...
> In article <3904523e.2324503@news.cyberus.ca>,
> gkmclean@garbage.cyberus.ca (Glen McLean) wrote:
>
> > I did this in '93 from Barrier to Source...(huge snip).
>
> Thanks Glen. That was a very comprehensive reply and has
> given me considerable food for thought. I had planned to go
> from Source to Barrier but after reading your comments, I
> am now in two minds. I suppose it would be more pleasing to
> end the journey in some quite rural corner of Gloucestshire
> rather than start from there. In fact you have just about
> convinced me to do just that. Of course this means a
> slightly uphill walk! I hope to do the same as you did
> regarding accommodation. I don't want to book ahead. If I
> feel like spending half a day sat out in the sunshine (I
> hope) of the garden of a Thames fronting hostelry, then I
> want the freedom to be able to do so. I note with keen
> interest that "Pubs of the River Thames" by Mark Turner is
> to be published on June 2nd. Featuring 100 pubs in detail
> and many more in passing.
>
> I feel quite thirsty already.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ian
>
>
> * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find
related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is
Beautiful






Subject: I may get in trouble for this but....
From: Mark (mm@are.ltd.uk)

I may get in trouble for this but I was sent this joke by a friend and I
thought it may go down well here.


A man parachuted out of an airplane and his chute did not open.

As he headed for almost certain death, he saw a man coming up toward
him
through the air from the ground.

As the man zoomed by, the man headed down asked, "Do you know
anything about
parachutes?"

The man replied in passing, "No, you know anything about coleman
stoves?"

--
__________________________________________________________________________

A.R.E. Limited              Tel: 01252 711777
East Street                 Fax: 01252 723918
Farnham                     Email: mailto:sales@are.ltd.uk
Surrey    GU9 7XU

Distributors of Quality Automotive Parts and Accessories

The views expressed herein are those of the author of this document
and do not necessarily represent the views of this company.
This transmission may be confidential, if you are not the intended
recipient you should notify us.

Visit us on the World Wide Web:- http://www.are.ltd.uk





Subject: Re: Sshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
From: Niall Harran (niallharran@nasuwt.net)


"Daniel Tuck" <daniel.tuck@net.ntl.com> wrote in message
news:sjeN4.2327$Ci6.45195@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
> WAKE UP! - Its a lovely day!
>

Bit of a groggy head today and difficult to leave the comfort of my nice
warm bed on a cold wet miserable Donegal morning.

Niall
--
In the mountains no-one counts the days.
--Chinese Proverb
Teachers open the door, but you enter by yourself.
--Unknown

Have a break and let us create your dream website.
http://siestadesigns.tripod.com






Subject: Re: Walking the Brecons
From: Niall Harran (niallharran@nasuwt.net)


<qtech@cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8dmjoq$mfh$1@plutonium.compulink.co.uk...

<major snip>

> --
> Paul Roberts,
> Y Gelli (Hay on Wye)
> Just a stones throw from England ...

Depends what size stones you want to throw ;-)

Niall
--
In the mountains no-one counts the days.
--Chinese Proverb
Teachers open the door, but you enter by yourself.
--Unknown

Have a break and let us create your dream website.
http://siestadesigns.tripod.com






Subject: Re: Hats
From: The Reids (gillardreid@mcmail.com)

>Personally I think you can't go much wrong with a knotted
>hankey.
>Kind regards,
>Ian.
The high tech knotted hanky is now available in some gear shops. It is
called a "buff" and is a tube of lightweight material that can be
twisted and worn in dozens of ways (instructions included)(takes up no
space when not in use) . Having "Jesus" length hair I wear one in the
pirate/LA streetgang bandana style. No one has so far laughed (to my
face) and it is very prectical if you have the b**** to wear it. When
poor old PS gets his PC working you will be able to see one in use in
the rec.walking mugshots pages.
Mike Reid
Looking north-west towards the Ben & the Houses of Parliament,
Hill shareware, quiz, books at "http://www.fellwalker.mcmail.com"




Subject: Re: Rambling
From: The Reids (gillardreid@mcmail.com)

Matti Lamprhey wrote:

>I've just spotted a message in uk.culture.language.english on the origin of
>the word "ramble".  If you are at all prudish, I advise you to refrain from
>checking your dictionary.
Mine only says "walk idly or roam without any special object", "browse
books", "disconnected", "straggling plant".???

Mike Reid
Looking north-west towards the Ben & the Houses of Parliament,
Hill shareware, quiz, books at "http://www.fellwalker.mcmail.com"




Subject: Re: TR: Liathach
From: Roger Chapman (r.chapman@zetnet.co.uk)

The message <39057526.66B4625C@compsoc.man.ac.uk>
  from  Anthony Dyer <anthonyd@compsoc.man.ac.uk> contains these words: 

> Liathach is probably the most serious mainland munro to tackle by
> virtue of the fact that the easy routes on and off the mountain are very steep
> and also few and far between.

Snow can turn the mildest of hills into an epic but while Liathach is 
by no means a doddle for my money both An Teallach and particularly 
Aonoch Eagach are more serious undertakings.

FWIW on the 2 occasions I have done Liathach we to did the traverse 
East to West.


-- 
Roger
Looking North over the Aire Valley (and Marley Gasworks) to Rombolds Moor





Subject: Re: Tilley Hat
From: Martin Richardson (martin@thequiff.demon.co.uk)

In article <htH$QAAXVXB5EwCL@g3snx.demon.co.uk>, Gordon Harris
<gordon@g3snx.demon.co.uk> writes
>In article <3905711F.DFB8A554@dundee.ac.uk>, Peter Clinch
><p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk> writes
>>Kevin West wrote:
>>> 
>>> Are they any good?
>>
Tilley underpants are fab!

-- 
Martin Richardson

Don't blame me when they build mobile phone masts on Schiehallion, 
Glaramara and Tryfan - to improve coverage.

Looking West over Pule Hill - south over the Royston Vasey local shop.




Subject: thors cave in derbyshire
From: aj (hillwalker@fsmail.net)

how big is this cave inside?






Subject: Re: Tilley Hat
From: Ian Sant (ian@melindwr.demon.co.uk)

In article <8e2ckm$155t$1@news.beeb.net>, Kevin West
<kevinwest@beeb.net> writes
>Are they any good?
>Reports appreciated
>Regards,
>Kev
>
>
Had one for two years now and it keeps off both mid Wales rain and
Provenal sun. Gets a bit sweaty in hot weather but less than any other
hat I've had and looks a lot better than the standard British sun hat!
-- 
Ian Sant




Subject: Adventurous Walk Books by Raymond Hugh
From: Dave (dharrhy@dera.gov.uk)

Does anyone know where I can purchase copies of the Adventurous Walks series
of books, written by Raymond Hugh in the mid 90s and published by Morning
Mist Publications ?

The books I am particularly interested in are:

10 Adventurous Walks in the South Chilterns
10 Adventurous Walks in West Sussex
10 Adventurous Walks in West Kent

Are there any other similar books (10-15 mile walks in Southern England)
that anyone else recommends ?

Cheers,
            Dave






Subject: Re: The Thames Path, and I.O.M
From: Ian E (ian.ellisnoiaspam@marks-and-spencer.com.invalid)

In article <maCZcGA8tgB5EwxJ@edblake.demon.co.uk>, Eddie
Blake <ed@edblake.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> I used to be a great fan of the Isle of Man. I didn't
> know they had a coastal path. Doe's anyone know where
> I can get any info on it?

Try the IOM tourist information centre at Sea Terminal,
Douglas, IOM telephone 01624 686766. There is a IOM North &
IOM South map available. I think I paid about 7 for the
two and that included p&P. Big scale map (can't recall what
scale and don't have it to hand) with the coastal path
clearly marked. It's about 90-100 miles.

Also Cicerone Press do a "Isle of Man Coastal Path"
paperback by Aileen Evans price 7.99 ISBN 1852842776. Go to
Amazon to order or again, the TIC can supply one.

Ian.



* Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful




Subject: Re: Magnetic Hill Warning
From: John L Wilson (johnlw@zetnet.co.uk)



> I know of the following  other nasties:   Carn Mor (Glen
> Pean/Dessary), Ladhar Bheinn. Ben More Mull.

I never really believed this to be a serious problem until one day of 
perfect visibility on Ben More (Mull). I took a bearing on Ben Nevis 
and found it to be 90deg out. 

Yeaman in his "Handbook of the Scottish Hills" ISBN 0 9514324 0 0

Gives the following as magnetic hills  

Mull: 
St Kilda: 
Skye Cuillin,
Rum: Ainshval, Askival, Hallival, Trallvall
Arran: Ard Bheinn, A'Chruach
Ben Loyal
Ladhar Bheinn


-- 
John Lang Wilson
Hatton, Peterhead






Subject: Re: Hope & Klibreck
From: Paul Simonite (stationhouse@zetnet.co.uk)

The message <390577B6.59F3DF67@compsoc.man.ac.uk>
  from  Anthony Dyer <anthonyd@compsoc.man.ac.uk> contains these words: 

> oh and <fear>Skye +


We used George yeomans as our guide for the 'Inn Pin'.  He also took 
us up the King's Chimney route to Sgur nan Gillean from Am Bastard.  
He's a member of the Skye Mountain Rescue team and a good walking 
companion too.
-- 
Cheers,

Compo

Today's weather forecast for the Northern Scotland: 
Cold, Wet and Windy :)





Subject: Re: Hope & Klibreck
From: Paul Simonite (stationhouse@zetnet.co.uk)

The message <8e4ul1$dgn$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>
  from  "George Thomson" <mail@showerdoc.co.uk> contains these words: 

> We will be up in that area again in a few weeks so I  will take your advice
> and doo! Foinaven.

Pick a fine day if possible.  Also worth a walk is Ben Hee.  Only a 
modest walk but Ben Hee is situated centrally and the view from the 
summit is stunning!  The vast blanket bog which makes up the Flow 
Country can be seen at its best from here.  Altnahara sits in a basin 
with the Sutherland hills encircling it.  The view quite literally 
stretches from the North Sea around the Pentland Firth, across to the 
Western Isles and south to the Fannaichs and beyond.
-- 
Cheers,

Compo

Today's weather forecast for the Northern Scotland: 
Cold, Wet and Windy :)





Subject: Re: thors cave in derbyshire
From: Paul Simonite (stationhouse@zetnet.co.uk)

The message <8e54af$pnh$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>
  from  "aj" <hillwalker@fsmail.net> contains these words: 


> how big is this cave inside?

If you don't get a response here try uk.rec.caving - they're bound to 
have the answer.
-- 
Cheers,

Compo - ex pot-holer.







Subject: Re: I may get in trouble for this but....
From: Paul Simonite (stationhouse@zetnet.co.uk)

The message <3905B92A.BF070102@are.ltd.uk>
  from  Mark <mm@are.ltd.uk> contains these words: 

> The man replied in passing, "No, you know anything about coleman
> stoves?"


ROTFL!
-- 
Cheers,

Compo

Today's weather forecast for the Northern Scotland: 
Cold, Wet and Windy :)





Subject: Re: The Thames Path
From: Mark (mm@are.ltd.uk)

Hi
Slightly off topic, but... Does anyone know where exactly along the Thames Kenneth Grahame (of "The Wind in the Willows") is buried?

Ian E wrote:

> In article <3904523e.2324503@news.cyberus.ca>,
> gkmclean@garbage.cyberus.ca (Glen McLean) wrote:
>
> > I did this in '93 from Barrier to Source...(huge snip).
>
> Thanks Glen. That was a very comprehensive reply and has
> given me considerable food for thought. I had planned to go
> from Source to Barrier but after reading your comments, I
> am now in two minds. I suppose it would be more pleasing to
> end the journey in some quite rural corner of Gloucestshire
> rather than start from there. In fact you have just about
> convinced me to do just that. Of course this means a
> slightly uphill walk! I hope to do the same as you did
> regarding accommodation. I don't want to book ahead. If I
> feel like spending half a day sat out in the sunshine (I
> hope) of the garden of a Thames fronting hostelry, then I
> want the freedom to be able to do so. I note with keen
> interest that "Pubs of the River Thames" by Mark Turner is
> to be published on June 2nd. Featuring 100 pubs in detail
> and many more in passing.
>
> I feel quite thirsty already.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ian
>
> * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful

--
__________________________________________________________________________
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East Street                 Fax: 01252 723918
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Subject: Re: Windproof Fleece
From: Peter Clinch (p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk)

zeus@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
> 
> Hi Pete
> > Something against the Mountain Jacket, Mark?
> 
> I own the base and guide so am happy to recommend them, the mountain
> jacket is over the budget in the original message - but I have the
> mountain jacket on my shopping list tho, do you own one?

I own the Mk2, with the pit zips but without the shoulder patches. 
Never really seen much point in the shoulder patches and like the pit
zips, so I prefer mine to the current version.  (Did have the Mk1, no
pit zips and no lower handwarmers, but a hood.  Some bastard nicked it
when my flat was burgled.)

If you're M or XL and like red, Braemar Nordic have them in the bargain
bin for 65 at the moment. http://www.mountainshop.co.uk, click on the
Sale link.

Pete.
-- 
Peter Clinch			University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637	Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177		Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk	http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/




Subject: Re: Salomon Adventure X-7
From: Rob Devereux (rde@wpo.nerc.ac.uk)

Hi

My brother and two friends have all just bought the old style Salomon
X-Adventures because they found them in Cotswold camping going for half
price because they are old stock.  They look to be very rugged and stiffer
than most Hill walk boots.  I was told that they were very comfortable but
that the foot does not move around ie does not bend in them too much so they
could get painful from a muscular point of view.  Other than that
recommended.

Rob
"Tim Thompson" <timthompson@tiltcomputing.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8e4qog$c2e$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
> I am looking to get some new boots for all year round use. I use them for
> mountain walking (Lakes etc) and intend to use them for long distance
walks
> (Pennine Way / Dales Way). Has anyone used these boots? Are they suitable
> for the above?
>
> Any information appreciated.
>
>
>






Subject: Re: Walking the Brecons
From: Rob Devereux (rde@wpo.nerc.ac.uk)


"Gordon Harris" <gordon@g3snx.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:iXwfuNAIVdB5Ewgy@g3snx.demon.co.uk...
> In article <3905acb8.0@news.nwl.ac.uk>, Rob Devereux
> <rde@wpo.nerc.ac.uk> writes
> >Thanks Peter
> >
> >As it happened I locked myself out of the house on the day I was menat to
go
> >and couldnt join the rest of the party to go.
> >
> >Rob
>
> Now what if Hilary or Hunt had had that attitude?    EOTM.[1]
> Don't mention Oates . . .

I'm beginning to wonder if Oates had encountered the same fate.  He just
wanted to go out for a pee, locked himself out and froze to death because
Scott and the rest were too busy listening to walkmans or chatting about the
Cricket scores or whatever else they did in those days to amuse themselves.






Subject: Re: Scarpa El Caps
From: Rob Devereux (rde@wpo.nerc.ac.uk)

Are these the incredibly stiff boots that look like rock climbing slippers
and have the grip up around the top of the boot ie higher up the rand than
you'd expect on most boots?

If so, I'd be interested but only because I miss the Merrell fabric boots I
had which fitted so well that i felt comfortable in any environment with
them and could scramble happily with them because I had good confident
contact with the face at all times.

Rob
"Gavin Gilbert" <gavin.gilbert@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:8e25r9$3i4$1@plutonium.btinternet.com...
> Has anyone tried these boots yet?  They look ideal for scrambling and
> Kletterstieg but I'm a tad worried about the lack of a heel cutaway.  Any
> comments about their performance on mud and wet grass?
>
>






Subject: Re: The Thames Path
From: Rob Devereux (rde@wpo.nerc.ac.uk)


"Ian E" <ian.ellisNOiaSPAM@marks-and-spencer.com.invalid> wrote in message >
Yes please. I'm particulaly interested in pub info.

Ok, try these:

Flowerpot Inn at Hambledon just up from Hambledon Lock.  Excellent in all
aspects.  I dont think it is actually in Hambledon but that is the nearest
point on the Thames.

Goring on Thames - Millerof Mansfield - mainly for young people but good
food.  John Barleycorn - Very olde worlde and excellent food.  Both near to
the River.  On the teashop front try Jan Marie in the arcade(reasonably
priced sandwiches, pasties and cakes).

Moulsford - No pub to speak of, the Beetle and Wedge is a bit more of a
hotel but it does make a good spot to sit out and watch the river.  There is
a good tea shop at the end of the village.

Cholsey - wouldnt recommend the pubs but it does have a lot of shops if you
need to stock up.  To avoid a long round trip, when you get to the railway
bridge, cross and then bear left along a track alongside the railway.  This
brings you out by the Cholsey station.  bear right and follow the road about
500 yds to the shops.

Wallingford - Mill house is pretty and they do a special 2 can eat for 5
thing before 7pm.  Unfortunately, the patio is under water at the moment.
If you want a good breakfast nip up to the town and go into the Bakery in
the square.  There are also good tea shops in the square.

Benson - Do not miss the Marina.  The food is excellent, you can look out on
the river and they sell the only inedible sugar mice in the world tastefully
called Black rats.

Must go now but I'll post the rest another time.

Rob






Subject: Re: TR: Liathach
From: Anthony Dyer (anthonyd@compsoc.man.ac.uk)



Adrian Marsh Tupper wrote:

> The Corbetts also seem to be gentler although I have to
> confess to never having set foot on one there.

Beinn Dearg set behind Liathach is said to be one of the most serious Corbetts.  A
traverse of it's ridge involves traversing one or two pinnacles.  When getting on to
the ridge, the usual routes of ascent involve picking an intricate way through
sandstone tiers set on very steep ground. The only moderate gradients you find to
get on to the ridge are found in a corrie on it's north side which takes an age to
get to.

The rest of the Corbetts certainly do have easy routes - but still there are some
classic routes among them e.g. Beinn Bhan in Applecross has a recommended route up a
ridge called A' Chioch - a moderate rock climb.

I've only climbed one corbett in the area - Fuar Tholl two years ago. It's another
classic but unusual for a Corbett in that it has a well worn track on its summit
ridge - most of the Corbetts I've climbed tend not to have paths.

Anthony Dyer
http://www.compsoc.man.ac.uk/~anthonyd





Subject: Re: Adventurous Walk Books by Raymond Hugh
From: Mark (mm@are.ltd.uk)

Hi
Ten Adventurous Walks in Surrey is listed as being still available by
http://www.amazon.co.uk
Mark

Dave wrote:

> Does anyone know where I can purchase copies of the Adventurous Walks series
> of books, written by Raymond Hugh in the mid 90s and published by Morning
> Mist Publications ?
>
> The books I am particularly interested in are:
>
> 10 Adventurous Walks in the South Chilterns
> 10 Adventurous Walks in West Sussex
> 10 Adventurous Walks in West Kent
>
> Are there any other similar books (10-15 mile walks in Southern England)
> that anyone else recommends ?
>
> Cheers,
>             Dave

--
__________________________________________________________________________
A.R.E. Limited              Tel: 01252 711777
East Street                 Fax: 01252 723918
Farnham                     Email: mailto:sales@are.ltd.uk
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The views expressed herein are those of the author of this document
and do not necessarily represent the views of this company.
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Subject: Re: 2990'->2999' Hills  Was Penyghent cafe
From: Anthony Dyer (anthonyd@compsoc.man.ac.uk)



Richard Webb wrote:

> >Combat erosion now and climb your nearest 2999 ft mountain!!!
> >Hey...how many mountains fall between 2990 and 2999ft? We can call
> >them the UKRWs.
> >--
>
> 6 Corbetts: Foinne Bheinn, Beinn Dearg(Torridon),Sgurr a
> Choire-bheithe (Knoydart), Beinn Bhreac,
> Leathad an Taobhain(Both Atholl) and
> The Fara (Dalwhinnie)

Do we know Beinn Dearg (Torridon) qualifies?  Surely that would be a
mountain that falls between 2999 and 3000ft joining Foniaven in this
bracket!

Anthony Dyer
http://www.compsoc.man.ac.uk/~anthonyd





Subject: SW coast path weather
From: The Reids (gillardreid@mcmail.com)

If this is a duplicate post, apologies
Did some bits of SW coastal path at Easter. The weather forecasts all
said rain, gales, hail etc. Except for Monday in reality it was clear
blue skies all the time.
Is the weather forecast for Lizard / Lands End the least accurate in
the country?
and hows this for trivia...
OS Landranger  204 has Cadgwith on the cover which only creeps onto
the map by about 3mm in the bottom left corner, is this the least
appropriate cover photo on an OS map?
Mike Reid
South of the border down Bexley way
shareware & books at "http://www.fellwalker.mcmail.com"




Subject: Re: Backpack size
From: Ian E (ian.ellisnoiaspam@marks-and-spencer.com.invalid)

In article <956747881.19297.0.nnrp-
01.9e98a98a@news.demon.co.uk>, "Adrian Scott"
<adrian@compan.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> The choices for backpack size I have in mind are
> either a 55 or a 65 litre
I would say 65 litre. The worst that could happen is that
you end up with 10 litres of space in it. Better that than
using your feet to desperately push everything into a too-
small pack and then hanging a bunch of excess on the
external straps.

Last time I bought a rucksack (a 65 litre), from Blacks
Leisure, I took everything I wanted to carry along with me
to the shop in a black bin liner. Then I stuffed it all in
the pack I thought I wanted and it fitted. So I bought it.
I'm sure Millets will let you do the same.

If you don't have all your equipment yet, take along
something of similar size. For example a bed pillow is
about the same size as a sleeping bag. A half litre coke
bottle for a camping stove etc. Don't forget to leave
enough space for food and water.

And don't forget too that its alright buying a big pack and
filling it to the max, but carrying such a load does not
come high on my list of fun things to do.

-- Ian


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Subject: Re: Backpack size
From: Peter Clinch (p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk)

Adrian Scott wrote:

> I already have my tent, which is a two-man dome tent I bought 6 years ago,
> which I am very happy with.

Pick up whatever else you'll be taking first and take them it all to the
store where you'll try them out.  If it doesn't all fit in, it isn't big
enough...  Don't forget to take a representative food bag as well.

> The choices for backpack size I have in mind are either a 55 or a 65 litre
> capacity backpack, or would I need to go even higher? 

Something in that ballpark, but exactly how big depends on the amount
and bulk of your gear.  If you have a 4 season synthetic sleeping bag,
you'll need more room than a 2 season down one, for example, so taking
your actual stuff along to see if it fits is a good idea.

> Is it ok to walk up mountains such as Snowdonia with a backpack this size?

You should be able to do it, yes.  Whether you'll enjoy the experience
may be another matter entirely, but if you can shift your base camp
before heading up the hill you can abandon most of your gear, which
makes the climb more enjoyable.

> I have seen some good value backpacks in Millets. They are Eurohike and they
> have the 55 or 65, 35 or 50 respectively. They seem good enough quality
> for what I am doing. Bearing in mind I am a newby to this and have other
> equipment to buy.

You pays your money and takes your choice.  From what I've seen of
Eurohike's gear you do get a basically sound, but basically basic, bit
of a kit at a very reasonable price.  Is a 100 pack twice as good? 
Well, difficult to determine what constitutes "twice as good", but it
*is* entirely possible you'll find a pack that's more comfortable than
the E-H when both are heavily loaded.  In which case, every time you
take a step you may wish you'd spent more, as the purchase should be
with you a long time (my Lowe is now about 12 years old, and no signs of
flagging).  OTOH, 35 isn't *too* terrible a price to simply replace if
you do wish you'd got something nicer or find you've got a bit more
money to spend in a couple of years.

The important thing is to try packs on with your hiking load in them
(another good reason to take your gear along) and then compare comfort
between different brands/models.  Try on some dearer things as well, so
you can ascertain what comfort money might be buying you.

Pete.
-- 
Peter Clinch			University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637	Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177		Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk	http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/




Subject: Re: Backpack size
From: Rob Devereux (rde@wpo.nerc.ac.uk)

I'd agree with all that peter and ian said.  I'd only add that if you cant
take all your kit with you, then get the shop to find some ropes or
something equally heavy to put in it.  If it is ok with a fully loaded and
heavy pack it will never be a problem with less.

I know someone who solo-backpacked across England and Scotland with a 55 ltr
pack and was ok but i notice he has now opted for a 75 ltr pack just for the
added room and the luxury that gives.

Rob






Subject: Re: SW coast path weather
From: Rob Devereux (rde@wpo.nerc.ac.uk)

The only reliable forecast I know is that I tend to get in Goring the stuff
that my parents have had in Devon upto a day late.

Rob
"The Reids" <gillardreid@mcmail.com> wrote in message
news:3906b931.15367341@news.mcmail.com...
> If this is a duplicate post, apologies
> Did some bits of SW coastal path at Easter. The weather forecasts all
> said rain, gales, hail etc. Except for Monday in reality it was clear
> blue skies all the time.
> Is the weather forecast for Lizard / Lands End the least accurate in
> the country?
> and hows this for trivia...
> OS Landranger  204 has Cadgwith on the cover which only creeps onto
> the map by about 3mm in the bottom left corner, is this the least
> appropriate cover photo on an OS map?
> Mike Reid
> South of the border down Bexley way
> shareware & books at "http://www.fellwalker.mcmail.com"






Subject: Re: Snowdonia trip
From: Rob Devereux (rde@wpo.nerc.ac.uk)

Depends on where you plan to ascend from.  llanberis is at one end and you
could park in the village or try the Youth Hostels around Snowdon(there are
about 3 or 4) and see if they would mind you parking in their car parks.
Their helpfulness might depend upon whether you are members or not and
whether you intend to use their grounds as a campsite.

Rob
"Adrian Scott" <adrian@compan.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:956747905.19310.0.nnrp-01.9e98a98a@news.demon.co.uk...
> Hi
>
> Planning my first trip to Snowdonia the weekend after next. Two friends
and
> I are driving up first thing on Saturday then parking the car and walking
up
> Mount Snowdon and then finding somewhere to camp.
>
> Then on the Sunday walking back to the car via another nice walk and going
> home.
>
> We'd like to know if anyone has any advice on where we should park, to
leave
> the car over night. What paths should we take and where we could camp?
>
> If we were to drive up on the Friday night we would probably not reach
> Snowdonia until 10pm does any one know where we could stay. Whether
Camping
> or B&B etc. at a reasonably rate.
>
> Cheers
>
> Adrian
>
> Adrian@compan.net
>
>
>
>






Subject: Re: Windproof Fleece
From: zeus@cix.compulink.co.uk (zeus@cix.compulink.co.uk)

> I own the Mk2, with the pit zips 
now we are talking, I am turning into a fan of pit zips since buying a 
Karakorum2

> Never really seen much point in the shoulder patches 
anything that adversely affects breathability is bad in my books,
I would also like to see adjustable cuffs

> Some bastard nicked it when my flat was burgled.
Chopping off their hands should be a court option

> If you're M or XL and like red, Braemar Nordic have them in the bargain
> bin for 65 at the moment. http://www.mountainshop.co.uk, click on the
> Sale link.
Thanks for the tip

Regards
Mark




Subject: Re: Snowdonia trip
From: The Reids (gillardreid@mcmail.com)

Adrian Scott wrote:

>We'd like to know if anyone has any advice on where we should park, to leave
>the car over night. What paths should we take and where we could camp?
Carparks of Snowdonia
There is a good carpark at 27323663 "behind" the Carneddau which could
be of use (its high & free) in your planning. Bear in mind of course
its not a good idea to leave valuables in car.
There is of course the (pay per day-dont know about overnight) car
park at the YH on Snowdon - Pen y Pass (26473556) at what is now the
start of the P.Y.G. track. (There is free parking further down near
the Pen Yr Gwyd itself if you dont mind walking up the road)
There is loads of parking along the A5 near Tryfan area and near the
YH at Ogwen.


Mike Reid
Looking north-west towards the Ben & the Houses of Parliament,
Hill shareware, quiz, books at "http://www.fellwalker.mcmail.com"




Subject: Re: thors cave in derbyshire
From: Ian E (ian.ellisnoiaspam@marks-and-spencer.com.invalid)

In article <8e54af$pnh$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>, "aj"
<hillwalker@fsmail.net> wrote:

> how big is this cave inside?

oh hello Ade!

It's blooming big. But like most caves (speaking as a non
caver) it's better viewed from the outside. Inside there is
all manner of litter, orange peel and I'd hate to think
what as you go deeper in. Plus it's dark and damp. But I
suppose that you would expect that in a cave!

pic here:
http://www.cressbrook.co.uk/hartingt/thors.htm

Ian.



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Subject: Re: Hope & Klibreck
From: Ben Dipper (ben.dipper@cinclus.freeserve.co.uk)

Hi

My turn to say thanks also for all those who responded to MY query about
Sutherland.  We too had a fantastic weekend up there - my first time - and
really fell in love with the place: it seems like a different world almost.
We ended up staying at the campsite in Scourie for the first two nights -
dead quiet the first night (Friday) and busier on the Saturday, and then
stayed at Achmelvich (near Lochinver) on the Sunday night.

Walking was great.  Managed to cajole some less-keen-on-walking companions
up Quinag on the Saturday and had superb views all the way around.  Came out
with a suntan too.  On Sunday we did a more leisurely walk to the Point of
Stoer, with again superb views back to Quinag and the other Sutherland
hills.

Fully intend to go back soon!

Thanks again for all tips and advice.
Cheers
Ben

Paul Simonite wrote in message <2000042510392482004@zetnet.co.uk>...
>The message <8e25p8$4pu$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>
>  from  "George Thomson" <mail@showerdoc.co.uk> contains these words:
>
>> Jenny and Stuart couldn't be more helpful they even offered
>> to drive us to the pub!!
>
>That's the far north for you :-)
>
>> The important bit though was the weather FANTASTIC ! good views,
brilliant
>> hills, set in what must be god's country, what a place! what a weekend!
>
>Now you know why I live here :-)
>
>> For two of us Klibreck was the penultimate Munro. If it was like this all
>> the time I think we would just start again.
>
>Why not try the Sutherland Corbetts too.  Ben Hee sits in such a
>position that you can see them all from its summit. Looking down into
>Altnaharra one can see its poition in a bowl and see why it is often
>the coldest place in the country.
>
>Next time you really *must* do Foinaven.  The scree covered slopes on
>the east side are amazing, and you can walk the summit ridge for a
>long way without losing any significant altitude.
>
>PS Which is to be your final Munro?
>--
>Cheers,
>
>Compo
>
>Today's weather forecast for the Northern Scotland:
>Cold, Wet and Windy :)
>






Subject: Re: Adventurous Walk Books by Raymond Hugh
From: Dave (dharrhy@dera.gov.uk)

Tried Amazon, although they still listed some of the books they were unable
to obtain them.

Dave








Subject: Re: Some Variation
From: Phil Brady (iss025@bangor.ac.uk)



Peter Hicks <hasbeen@eurobell.co.uk> wrote in article
<8dpred$2jdu$1@slrn.eurobell.net>...
> 
> "Phil Brady" <iss025@bangor.ac.uk> wrote in message
> news:01bfaa00$3a9aab00$2d018f93@is20.bangor.ac.uk...
> >
> >
> > 1.  Set compass from map grid directly (or GPS set for grid)
> > 2.  do not correct for variation.
> > 3.  always point the red end of the compass needle at the bottom left
> > corner of the N engraved on the bezel, rather than at the centre of the
N.
> >  That does the correction automatically with my old and very battered
> > Silva.
> >
> >
> > Phil Brady
> 
> SNEAKY !!
> 
> You must be old, like me, to have thunk up this!
> Seriously though: I've just about persuaded 'er indoors that we NEED a
GPS:
> I've pretty well settled on either a Magellan GPS 315 or Garmin GPS 12:
Your
> thoughts would be welcome.
> A pal lent me his Magellan GPS 300 for a day or two on Dartmoor last
weekend
> and, although it's a good bit of kit, it's a real pain to enter all the
Tors
> etc. as waymarks, so I want ne with a PC interface (Gotta have something
to
> play with on winter evenings!)
> 
> The pint I wished to raise is: Hw reliable is the mag. deviation setting
n
> these things? We were allowing 2deg. n the map and consistently gt about
a 2
> deg errr between the GPS and a prismatic Silva.
> 
> I really don't agree that "near 'nuff is good 'nuff" when you're ut in
the
> hills: You must be closer than 2 or 3 deg. off the deviation, or you're
just
> ging to cmpound the errrs.
> 
> I seem to be having a bit of bother with me O's........ Never mind, eh?
> 
> 

I'm older than I like to admit but there you are.

I found a Garmin 38 very useful when I lived in South Wales and walked a
lot in the Brecon Beacons.  The variation was spot on I seem to recall but
that's not a real factor anyway as
a) if you 'point at the bottom left of the N' you set the GPS for grid
north which should be easier to calculate.  
b)  if you take continual GPS	readings and transfer to compass then any
slight errors will correct themselves anyway.

I now live in North Wales where the GPS is less useful - not so many slowly
undulating almost featureless regions like Chartists' Cave area!   

I'd go for a Garmin 12 if I was buying now but I have no experience of the
Magellan.


Regards
Phil





Subject: Re: Some Variation
From: Phil Brady (iss025@bangor.ac.uk)



Trevor Dennis <trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
<qCEwaABhaIA5EwZ$@tdennis.demon.co.uk>...
> So who has a good mnemonic for remembering map/compass,
> compass/map add or subtract?

Well, I don't bother as I explained last week, but when I did I pictured a
plain screw thread.  As you take the compass off the map you 'unscrew' the
dial, as you put it back on you 'screw it down to the paper'

Screwey?  Yes.

Phil Brady





Subject: Wytham Woods in Oxfordshire
From: decapo@my-deja.com (decapo@my-deja.com)

Hello

My name is Ron Ruhle.  I wonder if anyone has any inforamtion regarding
the Woods in Wytham In Oxfordshire.  This wood is home to many deer
foxes etc.  I am trying to compile as much information as possible. I
already have lots of history from 80 odd years ago. I would love some
newer stuff.


Many thanks

Ron



Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.




Subject: Re: thors cave in derbyshire
From: Gordon Harris (gordon@g3snx.demon.co.uk)

In article <0aa23140.bf0213a8@usw-ex0108-061.remarq.com>, Ian E
<ian.ellisNOiaSPAM@marks-and-spencer.com.invalid> writes
>In article <8e54af$pnh$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>, "aj"
><hillwalker@fsmail.net> wrote:
>
>> how big is this cave inside?
>
>It's blooming big. But like most caves (speaking as a non
>caver) it's better viewed from the outside. Inside there is
>all manner of litter, orange peel and I'd hate to think
>what as you go deeper in. Plus it's dark and damp. But I
>suppose that you would expect that in a cave!
>
>pic here:
>http://www.cressbrook.co.uk/hartingt/thors.htm
>
And also on the front cover of Country Walking (April).
-- 
Gordon





Subject: Re: Rambling
From: Katherine (walkbritain@home.com)



The Reids wrote:
> 
> Now taken the trouble to find the posting. I see it comes from the old
> Dutch word  'rammelen'. Well, I have wandered about in Amsterdam all
> night, but not in that way, although I did chat with a few people. I
> will now look out for RA members with 'Ramblers do it with red socks
> on' or similar on the back of their rucksacks.
> We do give the RA a hard time, dont we, is it just the name, writing
> as a member myself?
> Mike Reid
> Looking north-west towards the Ben & the Houses of Parliament,
> Hill shareware, quiz, books at "http://www.fellwalker.mcmail.com"

Isn't a Rambler a care? Didn't they write a song about the little Nash
rambler, toot, toot?

Katherine,
Safely returned from Texas




Subject: Re: The Thames Path
From: Katherine (walkbritain@home.com)



Ian E wrote:
<snip>
> 
> This is the first time I've asked a question of this ng and
> I'm well chuffed with the response.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> -- Ian
> 
> * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful


I am so chuffed that you are chuffed. :>)

Katherine,
On a very hot afternoon in San Diego




Subject: Nikwax
From: Raymond.LaPorte (raymond.laporte@tesco.net)

Went to our new Cotswold superstore in Reading today for some Nikwax
TX Direct proofing, "sorry, out of stock". It's amazing how none of
these places run out of 200UKP coats to sell you yet don't keep up to
date with things you regularly need.

On to Blacks,"we stopped selling Nikwax products on finding out Nikwax
rots the stitching of boots". Since giving up Dubbin, I've been using
Nikwax for a dozen years or more without problems on my boots, has
anyone had trouble with this product on theirs?

Ray






Subject: Re: Salomon Adventure X-7
From: Pierre Lavaurs (lavaurs@jonas.univ-lyon1.fr)

In article <8e4qog$c2e$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>, "Tim Thompson"
<timthompson@tiltcomputing.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

> I am looking to get some new boots for all year round use. I use them for
> mountain walking (Lakes etc) and intend to use them for long distance walks
> (Pennine Way / Dales Way). Has anyone used these boots? Are they suitable
> for the above?
> 
> Any information appreciated.

These precisely I don't know but I had very very bad experiences of
Salomon boots I bought some five years ago. They lasted less than one year
though their prices hinted of good quality. In fact the first ones teared
after less than six months of use and were changed for free by my outdoor
retailer. The second one lasted about one year.

As far as I have seen "le vieux campeur" where I bought them (and which is
a very very responsible retailer) seems to recommend them absolutely no
more.




Subject: Re: Zermatt - Walking Literature
From: Pierre Lavaurs (lavaurs@jonas.univ-lyon1.fr)

In article <8dui7t$1k8t$1@news.cybercity.dk>, "Jesper"
<bin2000@vip.cybercity.dk> wrote:

> We are looking for a walking guide for Zermatt and surrounding areas. Our
> best option so far "Valais : A Walking Guide" by Kev Reynolds is out of
> print from Cicerone Press.
> 
> Any suggestions for alternative books?
> 
I had a look at it this week-end... Seems good ; I simply point it was
written before opening of the Hhenweg Zermatt-Grchen (the "Europaweg")
which was completed two years ago and which is among the most breathtaking
walks I ever did in the Alps. In the local tourist offices, you'll find
leaflets obout it ; believe them, it is not overvalued !

(If you are used to reading maps, 1/50 000 swiss maps are excellent, and
the yellow series is specially suited for walkers, with best paths well
marked in red - Buying the two maps for Mattertal might be sufficient, no
need for a book to go with them).




Subject: Re: Nikwax
From: Pam Scruton (pam.scruton@thedog.cableinet.co.uk)


Raymond.LaPorte commented

>Since giving up Dubbin, I've been using
> Nikwax for a dozen years or more without problems on my boots, has
> anyone had trouble with this product on theirs?

I too changed from Dubbin to Nikwax - have used it for years and am very
happy with it.  One of the reasons I don't really want to get fabric boots
is because getting Nikwax all over me as I apply it to my boots before an
outing is part of the ritual - and no, it doesn't have the same effect on
the boots if I wear rubber gloves or apply it with a cloth.

As a last resort - Cotswold or Field and Trek mail order, local Scout Shop,
even Milletts might have it.

Pam






Subject: Re: The 'Peaks'
From: Pam Scruton (pam.scruton@thedog.cableinet.co.uk)

Charles Frederick Wildgoose enlightens us

> For those who don't know let me mention that the Peak District is really
> the district of the Picca - an ancient tribe who used to frequent these
> parts.

Spent ten or more consecutive summer holidays in and around Hayfield and
never knew that before.

Thanks Charlie








Subject: Re: Information on footwear
From: Peter Clinch (p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk)

Phil Hughes wrote:

> I find fell running shoes fine for walking in 3 seasons if you don't
> mind wet feet and the ground isn't too boggy. As someone else said
> though, be very careful on rock: there is no grip at all. 

That's odd, a freind of mine solos up to mid grade rock routes in his
Felldancers...  My old Ron Hill Peaks were toilet for scrambles, but I
find my PBs are actually pretty good, though it does depend on the
rock.  If it's dead smooth they're not so hot, but otherwise the studs
catch just about any grip going.

> On grass the grip is superb. 

It's the best grip you'll get on steep, wet grass.  Much better than
boots.

> I personally use Felldancers. Walsh's have a high hard
> heel cup which cut into the back of my heel. Others obviously have no
> problem. Adidas also do/did a nice pair.

I have Walshes but they're really a bit narrow for me.  New Balance
do/did some, and there is/was a brand called ETA that was quite popular.

Pete.
-- 
Peter Clinch			University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637	Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177		Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk	http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/




Subject: Re: Nikwax
From: Peter Clinch (p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk)

"Raymond.LaPorte" wrote:

> On to Blacks,"we stopped selling Nikwax products on finding out Nikwax
> rots the stitching of boots". Since giving up Dubbin, I've been using
> Nikwax for a dozen years or more without problems on my boots, has
> anyone had trouble with this product on theirs?

Nope.  Think my Fitzies are about 14 years old now, and no sign of
problems with rotting stitching.

It isn't unknown for a stockist to come up with something like this when
there's another reason for discontinuing a product.  Friend in the trade
told me that back in the late 80s/early 90s Karrimor had a policy where
they'd have a minimum order level on packs, and since small retailers
couldn't really take 5 Condors at once they stopped doing them at all. 
About the same time there was a rumour going about that Karrimor sacks
fell to pieces, and it was surmised that these two facts were not
entirely unconnected!

Pete.
-- 
Peter Clinch			University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637	Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177		Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk	http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/




Subject: Re: Magnetic Hill Warning
From: Alex (alex@clockwork.freeserve.co.uk)

> > Any others?
>
> Eaval, North Uist.

Isn't Scafell Pike supposed to be one too ?

Alex C







Subject: Re: The 'Peaks'
From: John Wildgoose (john@netgoose.co.uk)


Gordon Harris wrote in message ...
>In article <01bfb014$ff064a20$7b29f7c2@windows95>, Charles Frederick
>Wildgoose <wildgoose@zetnet.co.uk> writes
>>I've noticed a tendency recently for weather forecasters to refer to the
>>Peak District as 'The Peaks'. Whilst I appreciate that there's a White
Peak
>>and a Dark Peak there certainly aren't 'peaks' in the more traditional
>>sense as in pointy hills.
>>


Woah, almost this one....
You: Charles Frederick Wildgoose.
Me: John Robert Wildgoose.

How much of a coincidence can that be?

John






Subject: Re: The Thames Path
From: Rita Daggett (r.m.daggett@nospam.open.ac.uk)



Glen McLean wrote:

> On Tue, 25 Apr 2000 11:19:51 -0700, Ian E
> <ian.ellisNOiaSPAM@marks-and-spencer.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>
> Somebody mentioned the Beetle and Wedge (mentioned in which H.G. wells
> novel?) I can remember my Mom and Dad taking me there in the '50s. It
> was run by friends of theirs at the time I think, possibly another
> Canadian. My 1st memory of playing pool (billiards?). It wasn't as I
> remembered it walking through, and it did look rather upmarket. I
> carried on looking for more "humble" surroundings.

The Beetle and Wedge is a bit 'upmarket' I suppose - we took my
mother-in-law there for her 80-th birthday last year and thought it was
great but I dont think I'd go in in walking boots. We didnt have lunch
there either - one day we went to a pub in a village close by and the
other day we went to the hotel in Gorham (is that the right
name?)-on-Thames and walked back along the river to the Beetle.
There were lots of old photos in the hotel of what it used to look like.
--
Rita Daggett (remove nospam to reply)






Subject: Re: Advice for long distance walks?
From: John Goldfine (johngoldfinehatesspam@acadia.net)


Jean Barto wrote in message <8e7ldd$an6$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>...
>Hello--
>>What else do all you walking veterans recommend I do to get in better
shape?
>

I must say, Jean Barto, that I think you will be in great shape to tackle
long distance walking.  Your marathon training should give you plenty of
endurance and wind; your walking, even on the flat, plenty of muscle
conditioning.  If you'll be carrying a heavy pack walking, I suppose you
ought to carry a heavier pack on your walks or go to the gym for upper body
work.  Of course, as with nearly everything, there's a contrary argument:
that, after a certain minimum level of fitness is reached (and by your
account, you have)  you shouldn't do anything out of the ordinary as
preparation.  The thing itself will train you with only a few transitory
aches--with the added existential advantage of actually living in the
present and not valuing it only as a prelude to some hypothetical future.
(Not that I personally can practice this last that I so blithely preach, you
understand--I envy you your commitment.)
>
>






Subject: Re: Backpack size
From: David Springthorpe (dspringy@one.net.au)

I've always been a bit wary about various manufacturers' claims for
the effective practical capacity of their packs (proabably true the
world over) - sometimes it means with any "throat" fully extended....a
generally good idea for beginners in particular is to hire first if
possible and experience first before purchasing.....

-------------------------------
David Springthorpe
E-mail dspringy@one.net.au





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Subject: Re: Hope & Klibreck
From: Paul Simonite (stationhouse@zetnet.co.uk)

The message <8e77ii$slq$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>
  from  "Ben Dipper" <ben.dipper@cinclus.freeserve.co.uk> contains 
these words: 

> Walking was great.  Managed to cajole some less-keen-on-walking companions
> up Quinag on the Saturday and had superb views all the way around.

We tossed up between Quinag and Canisp on Saturday and Canisp won.  
Pity we didn't opt for Quinag too, we could have had a mini-urw meet :-)
-- 
Cheers,

Compo

Today's weather forecast for the Northern Scotland: 
Cold, Wet and Windy :)





Subject: advice about Cuillin cf Lakes
From: J Dixon (jjcdixon@globalnet.co.uk)

I am planning a holiday to Skye with my wife. We do a lot of scrambling in
the lakes, using R.B Evans excellent book, Scrambles in the Lake District as
a guide. I have bought a book by J. Wilson Parker called Scrambles in Skye.
However, he does not use the same grading system for his routes.

What I want to know is: if we are happy on grade 3 scrambles in the Lakes,
such as Pinnacle Ridge on St Sunday Crag, or slab and notch on Pillar Rock
(usually with a rope, which we are just learning how to use), should we be
able to tackle some of the Moderate climbs on the Cuillin such as the West
Ridge of Sgurr nan Gillean, or the traverse of Clach Glas or Bidein Druim
nan Ramh?

While we are happy on grade 3 scrambles, we are not ready to tackle anything
much harder, so as a kind of guide it would be really useful if someone
could tell us how does Pinnacle Ridge on St Sunday Crag in the Lakes compare
with the West Ridge of Sgurr via Nicolson's chimney in terms of difficulty
and seriousness.

Thank you very much.






Subject: Re: Advice for long distance walks?
From: bob (addwithheld@nowhere.com)

it depends how fit you want to become.
personally i find that ther large stepper machines in my local gym are
excellent
as they mimic walking uphill quite well,






Subject: Re: advice about Cuillin cf Lakes
From: D. Virdee (dv@quadstone.com)

Hi there,

The cullin is probably harder than Grade three over all,
although I'm not really up on scrambling grades.

I traversed Clach Glas without needing a rope many years ago,
when I wasn't a very experienced climber, however I do remember there
being some route finding problems and down climbing.
There's a difficult (grade 3?) chimney up to the top of Blaven,
and the bit up to the 'imposter' where they smoked a pipe
(have a read of the Skye book you've bought) was spectacular,
on huge holds but I seem to remember being a wee bit scared!

I can highly recommend this route, as it's not as grueling as the
full traverse of the Cullin, but just as much fun.


Proficient use of a rope is advisable for all of the Cullin -
even the 'tourist route' up to Squrr nan gillian is a bit exposed,
and the traverse off via the pinnacles/ Nicholson chimney
is a bit scary if you're not a rock climber.

Two years ago I traversed the entire ridge, and only got the rope out
to abseil down the In Pinn, King's Chimney and into the Thearliach Dubh
gap - the hardest climbing was out of the gap - probably about vdiff.

You WILL find the cullin alot harder -- up to the Summit of Sguur Mhich
Connich is like nothing in the lakes.
The Cullin is bigger, badder and more exposed than any scrambling I've
done elsewhere in the UK. - Water can be a problem as well
once you are high out of the corries and on the ridges.


My best advice to you is :
1. Read the guide carfully, and do a route a grade or more less than
what you'd do in the lakes until you think you're happy with skye
grading, 
2. shoe-horn a rock-climbing friend to come with you, or if you're full
of cash - 
3. hire a guide!
4. Take loads of midge stuff if going in the summer.
5. Have fun and send us a trip report!


Dave




Subject: Re: Snowdonia trip
From: John Pennifold (john.pennifold@capgemini.co.uk)

Are you sure that you want to start with a backpacking trip? Why not do day
walks like most of the others who go there? Then you can use your day sack
and you won't have to buy a big sack. Do you have a day sack?
Have you done much mountain walking?






Subject: Re: Hope & Klibreck
From: Richard Webb (gripped@crux.u-net.com)

On Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:12:27 +0100, Paul Simonite
<stationhouse@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:

>Pick a fine day if possible.  Also worth a walk is Ben Hee.  Only a 
>modest walk but Ben Hee is situated centrally and the view from the 
>summit is stunning!  

While all I ever saw from the top of Hee was the inside of a cloud,
can I be allowed to plug Beinn Leoid/Meallan a'Chuail, on the other
side of the road. Some good views to be had there. And wild!

I have yet to do Meallan Liath Coire Mhic Dhughaill, but I needed an
excuse to mention this in the same post as Hee

Richard Webb




Subject: Re: Advice for long distance walks?
From: John Goldfine (johngoldfinehatesspam@acadia.net)


Jean Barto wrote in message <8e7ldd$an6$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>...
>Hello--
>>What else do all you walking veterans recommend I do to get in better
shape?
>

I must say, Jean Barto, that I think you will be in great shape to tackle
long distance walking.  Your marathon training should give you plenty of
endurance and wind; your walking, even on the flat, plenty of muscle
conditioning.  If you'll be carrying a heavy pack walking, I suppose you
ought to carry a heavier pack on your walks or go to the gym for upper body
work.  Of course, as with nearly everything, there's a contrary argument:
that, after a certain minimum level of fitness is reached (and by your
account, you have)  you shouldn't do anything out of the ordinary as
preparation.  The thing itself will train you with only a few transitory
aches--with the added existential advantage of actually living in the
present and not valuing it only as a prelude to some hypothetical future.
(Not that I personally can practice this last that I so blithely preach, you
understand--I envy you your commitment.)
>
>







Subject: Re: The 'Peaks'
From: Charles Frederick Wildgoose (wildgoose@zetnet.co.uk)

John Wildgoose 

> Woah, almost this one....
> You: Charles Frederick Wildgoose.
> Me: John Robert Wildgoose.
> 
> How much of a coincidence can that be?

Wow !  All we need is another one then we could say we've got a flock of
Wildgooses [or should it be 'gaggle']. My son is Jamie Robert Wildgoose so
his name isn't much different from yours.

Whereabouts are you from ?

Charlie 

[With apologies to other members of this ng - there aren't that many
Wildgooses in the world although there are 56 of us listed in the Telephone
Directory for the Derby area. Derbyshire is where I believe most of us
originate]. 






Subject: Re: The 'Peaks'
From: Daniel Tuck (daniel.tuck@net.ntl.com)

Just got back from the 'Peaks' - absolutely brilliant. Yesterday we did a
25 - 30k route all around Kinder and back to Edale. There wasn't a soul
about until 11. Then today we did a shorter distance to Mam-Tor and Hollins
Cross, went down into Blue-John cavern, which was very good and then a quick
dash back to Edale for our train - almost missed the damn thing.

Incidentally has anyone hear ever encountered the Rambling crew who
literally take over the Edale train about every fortnight and play folk
music??? - that's completely true!!!

Daniel,

P.S - The Midland Mainline is very good. They serve free Tea and cofee and
its the best trainline I've ever been on.

P.P.S - If your thinking of going away to the Peak District ,do so, its well
worth it.


Charles Frederick Wildgoose <wildgoose@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:01bfb07c$786ff660$6029f7c2@windows95...
> Gordon Harris wrote
>
> > Aren't you forgetting the reef knolls near Longnor?
>
> Yes, I am :-}  You're talking about Croom and Parkus aren't you (sorry -
> Chrome and Parkhouse for any foreigners - which means anyone living
outside
> the immediate area basically). Yes, Gordon I did forget them. Still, the
> point is that (generally) the Peak District doesn't have _many_ real
peaks.
> This isn't a problem with me because I love it and not just the Peak
> District either. There's some marvellous scenery in other parts of
> Derbyshire (and Staffordshire, and Nottinghamshire etc etc)
>
> > Course you might not consider them real hills.  ;-)
>
> They're big enough .....
>
> > And the sharpest one is on private property, AIUI.
>
> Still, you can now walk up the other one.
>
> Charlie.






Subject: Snowdonia - This Weekend
From: Trevor Dennis (trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk)


I'll be staying at the Forest Park site near Beddgelert 
this weekend (May Bank Holiday). If anyone is passing
say hello, and I'll make them a coffee.

Orange and yellow Coleman Colorado tent, and a silver
Ford Focus. 

Looks like it's gonna be a nice weekend. :))))

-- 
Trevor Dennis




Subject: Re: The 'Peaks'
From: Charles Frederick Wildgoose (wildgoose@zetnet.co.uk)

Gordon Harris wrote 

> Aren't you forgetting the reef knolls near Longnor?

Yes, I am :-}  You're talking about Croom and Parkus aren't you (sorry -
Chrome and Parkhouse for any foreigners - which means anyone living outside
the immediate area basically). Yes, Gordon I did forget them. Still, the
point is that (generally) the Peak District doesn't have _many_ real peaks.
This isn't a problem with me because I love it and not just the Peak
District either. There's some marvellous scenery in other parts of
Derbyshire (and Staffordshire, and Nottinghamshire etc etc)
 
> Course you might not consider them real hills.  ;-) 

They're big enough .....

> And the sharpest one is on private property, AIUI.

Still, you can now walk up the other one.
 
Charlie.




Subject: Re: Windproof Fleece
From: Trevor Dennis (trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk)

Phil writes

>I got a windproof fleece from m*llets , it was half price from 75 quid a
>couple of years ago.

You were robbed. ;)

Not exactly jackets, but I get most of my mid layer
fleeces from Tescos. For instance...  they have high
necked fleeces with zipped neck and pockets for just
13ukp at the moment.

-- 
Trevor Dennis




Subject: Re: The 'Peaks'
From: John Wildgoose (john@netgoose.co.uk)


Charles Frederick Wildgoose wrote in message
<01bfb07d$2670f200$6029f7c2@windows95>...
>John Wildgoose
>
<snip>
>
>Whereabouts are you from ?

Living in Bucks now, but unsurprisingly born in Totley, lived in Dronfield
Woodhouse, near enough to the Frog's Mouth to get me into the hills at a
very early age!
>
>Charlie
>
>[With apologies to other members of this ng - there aren't that many
>Wildgooses in the world although there are 56 of us listed in the Telephone
>Directory for the Derby area. Derbyshire is where I believe most of us
>originate].

Only 56!! I checked about ten years ago during a stay in a hotel near
Matlock and there were over 70.  We must be a dying breed!  The story has it
that one of Wesley's disciples put down roots in the area and from his God
fearing loins we did spring.

John






Subject: Re: Nikwax
From: John Wildgoose (john@netgoose.co.uk)


Rob Devereux wrote in message <39083047.0@news.nwl.ac.uk>...
>I probably saw you in Cotswold,

<snip>
As you say, there is always loads of expensive
>clothing but no useful stuff.  I could not find compression sacks, which
are
>a pretty ordinary thing to stock, and more insulting, are in their
>catalogues.
>


All the stock might have gone to the Cirencester branch as this weekend they
are having a big sale and clearing out a lot of old (?) stock.  I was
advised to get there at 09:00 on Saturday for the pick of the bargains (up
to 50% some of it).  I might go and have a look, there might be something,
but despite my nose for a bargain, I do detect a faint odour of
disappointment.

John






Subject: Re: Peak District Campsites
From: gillhirst (gillhirst@ukonline.co.uk)

I'm with you Daniel - The campsite is called Coopers campsite, the Pub on
the otherside of the Road is great and they take dogs (both the Pub and the
campsite) - my 8 yr old collie loves it - maybe see you at the Downfall this
weekend
Gill

Daniel Tuck <daniel.tuck@net.ntl.com> wrote in message
news:_GZM4.1508$Ci6.29298@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
> I would reccomend the Camp Site in Edale. It is probably no better / no
> worse than the one in Hayfield. It was 2.00 per person per night. If you
> want contact details please email me.
>
> Thats where I'll be tommorow. I'm quite looking forward to my trip to
Kinder
> Downfall. That should be good.
>
>
>
> Ian E <ian.eNOiaSPAM@tesco.net.invalid> wrote in message
> news:0a376508.44a88f76@usw-ex0110-076.remarq.com...
> > In article <8dvqfu$nsh$1@plutonium.btinternet.com>, "Ian
> > Allman" <ian.allman@btinternet.com> wrote:
> > > Can anyone suggest any nice campsites in the Peak
> > > District.
> >
> > Kinder Road, Hayfield, High Peak MR 110/048868 Telephone
> > 01663 745394.
> >
> > Hayfield is a medium sized village with a few shops and
> > some good pubs. The village is 5 mins walk from this cosy
> > and beautifully situated site to the West of Kinder Scout.
> > I've stayed here many times. The site takes dogs. The site
> > belongs to the Caravanning & Camping Club but they take non-
> > members. Happily because of the location (area of natural
> > beauty and all), vans are banned.
> >
> > Ian
> >
> >
> > * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find
> related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is
> Beautiful
>
>






Subject: Re: Backpack size
From: Alan Ashton (am.ashton@virgin.net)

Adrian Scott wrote:
> 
> Hi
> 
> I need to buy my first backpack. However I'm unsure on what size I should
> buy.
> 


If you are just starting backpacking, you will find after a few trips
you will gradually refine your gear, ie leaving behind stuff you thought
you needed but don't, replace stuff with lighter versions, etc.  So your
pack will get roomier and roomier. Or, in my case, I have removed the
pockets, and no longer have anything strapped to the outside.
Alan





Subject: Re: Backpack size
From: Daniel Tuck (daniel.tuck@net.ntl.com)

Its probably Duke of Edinburgh Bronze, where it has to be carried! You could
probably get your gear down to 50litres if you tried hard. But then again go
for a larger volume just in case.

Daniel,

Ian E <ian.ellisNOiaSPAM@marks-and-spencer.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:028e001a.96d0a74a@usw-ex0108-061.remarq.com...
> In article <956747881.19297.0.nnrp-
> 01.9e98a98a@news.demon.co.uk>, "Adrian Scott"
> <adrian@compan.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > The choices for backpack size I have in mind are
> > either a 55 or a 65 litre
> I would say 65 litre. The worst that could happen is that
> you end up with 10 litres of space in it. Better that than
> using your feet to desperately push everything into a too-
> small pack and then hanging a bunch of excess on the
> external straps.
>
> Last time I bought a rucksack (a 65 litre), from Blacks
> Leisure, I took everything I wanted to carry along with me
> to the shop in a black bin liner. Then I stuffed it all in
> the pack I thought I wanted and it fitted. So I bought it.
> I'm sure Millets will let you do the same.
>
> If you don't have all your equipment yet, take along
> something of similar size. For example a bed pillow is
> about the same size as a sleeping bag. A half litre coke
> bottle for a camping stove etc. Don't forget to leave
> enough space for food and water.
>
> And don't forget too that its alright buying a big pack and
> filling it to the max, but carrying such a load does not
> come high on my list of fun things to do.
>
> -- Ian
>
>
> * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find
related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is
Beautiful






Subject: The Cotswolds
From: Daniel Tuck (daniel.tuck@net.ntl.com)

I'm planning a trip to the Cotswolds at the end of May does anyone have any
tips? - The train there will be about 25.00 does anyone have any
reccomendations for campsites around cheltenham???

I looked on the Gloucestershire (sp?) site and there was a
cheese-rolling-down-steep-heel-and-chase-after-it competition. Which was the
same weekend!

Anyone got any helpful advice???


Thanks Daniel.






Subject: THE BEST OF APRIL
From: Bill Murray (billm@busmail.com)

Have you seen this page? Its incredible!!!
I think that I know what it is, but I am not sure.
This is the page:

http://www.lanzadera.com/curiosity

Please if you know what it is, send me and e-mail.


     Bill










Subject: Re: Backpack size
From: Peter Clinch (p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk)

Adrian Marsh Tupper wrote:

>  The same goes for boots and waterproofs.  IMO, if
> this is *all* you can afford then don't bother buying any specialist
> clothing.  I haven't.

I'd actually put a decent set of baselayers well ahead of the best
waterproofs I could afford.  I don't actually wear waterproofs that
often compared to baselayers, so they have substantially less impact on
long-term comfort for me (in fact, despite being a rampant gear junkie,
my overtrousers are a pair of untaped, non-breathable ripstop ones that
cost me 5.99 a few years ago, and which I wear about once a year on
average when walking).

Socks are included with baselayer, and alongside boots, as well worth
spending good money on IMHO.

Pete.
-- 
Peter Clinch			University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637	Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177		Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk	http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/




Subject: Re: advice about Cuillin cf Lakes
From: D. Virdee (dv@quadstone.com)

Hi again,

Another thing that I forgot to mention is a helmet -
I almost got squished the first time I was on the Cullin - Loose rock
is a problem
particularlly approaching/retreating Sgurr Dearg from way below the Inn.
Pin -
loads of folk hang around the bottom and they do knock a lot of rock
down - I remember looking up and seeing a football size stone bouncing 
toward my head - I didn't have time to dodge one way or the other, which
was just as well, because it hit a rock, split in two, sending
the two halves either side of my im-mobile head!
Needless to say, the next time I visited, I took a helmet!

Have a good return visit to Skye.

Dave




Subject: Re: The Cotswolds
From: Gordon.Riddell@comlab.ox.ac.uk (gordon.riddell@comlab.ox.ac.uk)

In <tW4O4.974$E44.21160@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com>, "Daniel Tuck" <daniel.tuck@net.ntl.com> writes:
>I'm planning a trip to the Cotswolds at the end of May does anyone have any
>tips? - The train there will be about 25.00 does anyone have any
>reccomendations for campsites around cheltenham???
>
>I looked on the Gloucestershire (sp?) site and there was a
>cheese-rolling-down-steep-heel-and-chase-after-it competition. Which was the
>same weekend!
>
>Anyone got any helpful advice???

Don't take part in the cheese-rolling! I've seen it on local TV
and it looks suicidal. The odd broken leg seems to be quite
normal from what the reporters made out though I think you
are no longer allowed to join in if you are drunk. But it looked
like quite an event to watch.





Subject: Re: Snowdonia trip
From: Adrian Scott (adrian@compan.demon.co.uk)


John Pennifold <john.pennifold@capgemini.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8e9pip$3gh$1@taliesin2.netcom.net.uk...
> Are you sure that you want to start with a backpacking trip? Why not do
day
> walks like most of the others who go there? Then you can use your day sack
> and you won't have to buy a big sack. Do you have a day sack?
> Have you done much mountain walking?
>
>

We've done some mountain walking before in the Lake district. I do have a
day sack.
And judging on some of the informatrion about campsites and parking I might
just settle to do have a base camp with the car and tent and just use the
day pack.
How busy do the camp sites get ?
Are you able to prebook ?


Cheers
Adrian








Subject: Inca Trail articles and novel
From: roypdavies@my-deja.com (roypdavies@my-deja.com)

In the airport in Copenhagen just over 2 weeks ago I saw a Danish
magazine with an English title, Adventure World, which had an article
(in Danish) about the Inca Trail. By coincidence just after I got back
to Britain I noticed that the current issue of a British magazine with a
rather similar title, Global Adventure, also had a long (but completely
different) article on the Inca Trail (volume 3, issue 3).

The article in the British magazine has some information on the pros and
cons of the Peruvian government's plan to ban solo walkers, i.e. hikers
will have to make arrangements to join a group, either before going to
Peru or when they get to Cusco.

I maintain some web pages about the Inca Trail which describe my
impressions of what it was like in 1989, when few people went there,
compared with 1997 when I did it again, and contain photographs and
notes on the ruins along the trail as well as at Machu Picchu, and
details of a thriller, published in paperback last week, which has some
chapters set on the Inca Trail, and at Machu Picchu and other places in
Peru.

Roy Davies

The Inca Trail to Machu Picchu
http://www.ex.ac.uk/~RDavies/inca/




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Subject: Re: advice about Cuillin cf Lakes
From: D. Virdee (dv@quadstone.com)

G R Ashcroft wrote:
> 
> 
> And, with one exception, all the guides that I have met in Skye have been
> rude, and seem to have the attitude that they own the hills.  

Agree 100 % with you there. I met the most obnoxious guide with his
clients monopolising the Inn. Pin. 
\begin{rant}

BUT - If people are going to visit unfamiliar areas and are unsure of
their ability, (J. Dixon has actually been to Skye before, sounds like
he knows what he's on about, so he probably doesn't need a guide, but I
can't speak for him) I'd rather have someone come back from a safe trip
to the Cullin with a guide with a lighter wallet than in a Sea King. 



There are too many numpties in the hills theses days. If wholly
inexperienced people (J.Dixon - i don't mean you!) *insist* on
undertaking ventures, surely  anything to reduce deaths or accidents
from occurring in this first instance is a good thing?

Everyone has to earn a living some way  - and the only reason
there are guides in the UK is because there is a market for them.
Who are we as climbers to deny someone the right to work on the Cullin?
The next thing people will be saying is the crofters can't have sheep on
the hills because their (off) white fleeces' they spoil the view for us!


\end{rant}

However, Gwyn, I agree that "learning the hard way" is one of the
most satisfying challenges of mountaineering - but you can't run before
you can walk.

I am donning an asbestos suit in anticipation of incoming flames...

Dave




Subject: Re: Rambling
From: The Reids (gillardreid@mcmail.com)

Katherine wrote:

>Isn't a Rambler a care? Didn't they write a song about the little Nash
>rambler, toot, toot?
Was it sunny in Texas. i.e. did you go out in it  a lot?  :-)
>Katherine,
>Safely returned from Texas
IIRC there was a Fraser-Nash a long time ago here, a racing care I
think, but I dont think "Rambler" would sell a car in Britain,
although we have Rover (just) and Land-Rover, perhaps the Rovers
Association would have been better? 
Mike Reid
Looking north-west towards the Ben & the Houses of Parliament,
Hill shareware, quiz, books at "http://www.fellwalker.mcmail.com"




Subject: Re: The Cotswolds
From: Daniel Tuck (daniel.tuck@net.ntl.com)

 > Don't take part in the cheese-rolling! I've seen it on local TV
> and it looks suicidal. The odd broken leg seems to be quite
> normal from what the reporters made out though I think you
> are no longer allowed to join in if you are drunk. But it looked
> like quite an event to watch.
>

No I didn't plan on it, just wanted to watch it! - Should be quite a site!!






Subject: Re: The 'Peaks'
From: Daniel Tuck (daniel.tuck@net.ntl.com)

That sounds like the one, just take a walkman and some headphones unless
your into that sort of  thing.


Dave Pickles <davep@nugate.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8eb872$19s$1@cyw.uklinux.net...
> Daniel Tuck wrote:
>
> > Incidentally has anyone hear ever encountered the Rambling crew who
> > literally take over the Edale train about every fortnight and play folk
> > music??? - that's completely true!!!
>
> Indeed. I believe it's the 1838 Manchester -> Sheffield on the second
> Tuesday of the month, but it would be wise to check beforehand.
>
> Dave Pickles






Subject: Binsey
From: Michael Farthing (mf@cyclades.demon.co.uk)

Binsey (Ascent from Bewaldeth) is looking a good candidate for Tim and me
as our next Wainwright, but I seem to remember some discussion about a year
ago that access had become rather problematic (like an unthethered farmer
in one of the fields).

Can anyone shed any light, please?  I'm not desperately afraid of
unthethered farmers, but I think Tim might be a bit.

Incidentally, since someone asked recently, we have finally completed
Lingmoor Fell (starting from Elterwater this time).  This makes our
Wainwright total 72 and means we have crossed the one-third mark.

I'm keeping records of distance and time partly out of interest to measure
Tim's growing capacity, but also to help me plan realistic walks rather
than over ambitious ones.  So for the benefit of any custodians of 4 year
olds the walk was of Naismith size 2h 9m and was completed (excluding
any butty stops over 15 minutes) in 4h 5m.  He walked everything apart
from a few flying leaps over bog and a shoulder ride through a field of
cows.  This is the first time Tim achieved more than a half Naismith speed,
but is not yet good enough to win him an official Tranter Correction Fitness
Line.  Once you get used to it, however, it is a very pleasant speed and you
see a lot more.  

-- 
Michael Farthing
cyclades
software house





Subject: Re: Hope & Klibreck
From: Paul Simonite (stationhouse@zetnet.co.uk)

The message <39072ae5.3917964@news.u-net.com>
  from  gripped@crux.u-net.com (Richard Webb) contains these words: 

> I have yet to do Meallan Liath Coire Mhic Dhughaill, but I needed an
> excuse to mention this in the same post as Hee

> Richard Webb


We hope (no pun intended) to be doing the above later this year.  
Unfortunately we have to travel south to Manchester and Notts 
tomorrow and do some duty visits to family :-(  However, all is not 
bad news - we are doing Ben Vrackie near Pitlochry on our way south :-)
-- 
Cheers,

Compo

Today's weather forecast for the Northern Scotland: 
Cold, Wet and Windy :)





Subject: Re: The Thames Path
From: Ian E (ian.ellisnoiaspam@marks-and-spencer.com.invalid)

In article <KIdO4.4479$802.363380@news3.cableinet.net>,
"lba40" <lba40@s2do.co.uk> wrote:

> B&B - that is Boat&Breakfast - at
> http://www.s2do.co.uk/bnbdt

Thanks Jiri

That's different! And I likes the look of it. Depending on
where I'll schedule and your availability, I may well
sample some of your hospitality.

Good site too.

Ian.


* Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful





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Subject: Re: Backpack size
From: David Springthorpe (dspringy@one.net.au)

On Thu, 27 Apr 2000 21:03:53 +0000, Alan Ashton <am.ashton@virgin.net>
wrote:

>If you are just starting backpacking, you will find after a few trips
>you will gradually refine your gear, ie leaving behind stuff you thought
>you needed but don't, replace stuff with lighter versions, etc.  So your
>pack will get roomier and roomier. Or, in my case, I have removed the
>pockets, and no longer have anything strapped to the outside.
>Alan

Hasn't happened to me after 28 years.....!

-------------------------------
David Springthorpe
E-mail dspringy@one.net.au




Subject: Re: any snow in Snowdonia?
From: Andy Jensen (andy@jensens.freeserve.co.uk)

Doesn't look like any snow on the webcam.  Check it out at
www.fhc.co.uk/weather/live/main.htm

ARNJ


Chris Crocker <chris@crocknospamer.org> wrote in message
news:LxHbhMAY1KC5EwOr@biber.fsnet.co.uk...
> I'm planning to do the Snowdon horseshoe this weekend with some less
> experienced friends and wonder whether there are likely to be any
> substantial snow deposits to hamper us.  There have been heavy snowfalls
> over 600m in Scotland this week and the SAIS have issued a category 4
> avalanche warning which they say may persist for some days, due to the
> expected sharp rise in temperature.  Any snow on the ridge will make it
> a no-no for one of the party.
>
> Chris C
> (remove <nospam> from address when replying)






Subject: 4 Day Lake District Break for sale
From: Adam Stritten (red.earth@"delete"bigfoot.com)


1st May - 5th May @ Grange over Sands (near Kendal, Cumbria).

Accomodation - Caravan (sleeps 4)

Electricity paid for.

40 ono

Please call Alison or Dave on 01268 512320




Subject: Re: Washing Wet Gear
From: Adrian Marsh Tupper (adrian.tupper@zetnet.co.uk)

The message <ZZqj8EBHcTB5EwnM@nevis-view.demon.co.uk>
  from  Surfer! <nevis-view@nospam.demon.co.uk> contains these words: 

> >>Rinse, rinse and rinse.  don't spin.  Once it's dry consider a cool iron
> >>on the outside - check the label.
> >
> >       Demonstrations were given from time to time on various Munro
> >summits over the weekend - especially today :-)

> You mean someone lugged an iron, ironing board & generator up there? ;-)

Well, a man wouldn't think of such a thing.  It does however conjoure 
up all sorts of surreal images though.

On Ben Chonzie the ironing board would improve the view!

-- 
Adrian Tupper, Edinburgh
Munro Bagging on the Web
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/adriantupper/mindex.htm





Subject: Re: Backpack size
From: Adrian Marsh Tupper (adrian.tupper@zetnet.co.uk)

The message <39097a57.0@news.nwl.ac.uk>
  from  "Rob Devereux" <rde@wpo.nerc.ac.uk> contains these words: 

> > I'd actually put a decent set of baselayers well ahead of the best
> > waterproofs I could afford.  I don't actually wear waterproofs that
> > often compared to baselayers,

> I'm not sure that I fully agree except to say that apart from the fact they
> wash badly, the Millets thermals do work very well.

> I will agree that I find I dont use Waterprooofs very often but I do like to
> have ones that live up to their name when i use them.  Having spent many a
> day soaked to the skin with bad ones, my suggestion would be to get at least
> a good top.

My thoughts are the same.  When I moved to Goretex my experience in 
the hills was like being born again.

But can someone explain to me why some folk insist on wearing their 
waterproofs in consistenly fine weather?

-- 
Adrian Tupper, Edinburgh
Munro Bagging on the Web
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/adriantupper/mindex.htm





Subject: Re: Binsey
From: Adrian Marsh Tupper (adrian.tupper@zetnet.co.uk)

The message <390c086d.6895130@news.u-net.com>
  from  mike@westhead.net (Mike Coverdale) contains these words: 



> Just noticed the date of Michael's 
> posting - 03/06/36. Anybody else 
> got the same ?
> -- 

Fri 28 April 00, 11:37

The date you have is curious especially as it is almost my date of birth!

-- 
Adrian Tupper, Edinburgh
Munro Bagging on the Web
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/adriantupper/mindex.htm





Subject: Re: Binsey
From: Stuart Baldwin (stuart@boxatrix.demon.co.uk)

On Fri, 28 Apr 2000 21:55:49 GMT, mike@westhead.net (Mike Coverdale)
wrote:

>
>Just noticed the date of Michael's 
>posting - 03/06/36. Anybody else 
>got the same ?

Your version of Forte Agent is not Millennium compliant.

http://www.forteinc.com

I also had a number of messages displaying dates as nn/nn/36 until I
upgraded to version 1.8.  Not all dates were wrongly displayed, so maybe
it depends on the software of the poster as well as the reader (Michael
appears to use Demon Internet Simple News).

-- 
Stuart Baldwin




Subject: Re: Nikwax
From: Stuart Baldwin (stuart@boxatrix.demon.co.uk)

On Fri, 28 Apr 2000 22:43:52 +0100, "Neil Tonks"
<neil@peakwalking.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

>
>"Raymond.LaPorte" <raymond.laporte@tesco.net> wrote in message
>news:8e5rg3$nkf$3@epos.tesco.net...
><snip>
>> On to Blacks,"we stopped selling Nikwax products on finding out Nikwax
>> rots the stitching of boots". Since giving up Dubbin, I've been using
>> Nikwax for a dozen years or more without problems on my boots, has
>> anyone had trouble with this product on theirs?
>
>No.  I've used both the solvent-based and water-based Nikwax products for
>years without any trouble at all.
>
>I think it may be more to do with Blacks having an exclusivity deal to sell
>the Grangers products.

Perhaps we could do a survey...?

-- 
Stuart Baldwin




Subject: Re: Binsey
From: Mike Coverdale (mike@westhead.net)

Adrian Marsh Tupper <adrian.tupper@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:

>The message <390c086d.6895130@news.u-net.com>
>  from  mike@westhead.net (Mike Coverdale) contains these words: 
>
>
>
>> Just noticed the date of Michael's 
>> posting - 03/06/36. Anybody else 
>> got the same ?
>> -- 
>
>Fri 28 April 00, 11:37
>
>The date you have is curious especially as it is almost my date of birth!
>
>-- 
>Adrian Tupper, Edinburgh
>Munro Bagging on the Web
>http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/adriantupper/mindex.htm
>

Looks like my server hiccupped. The post before 
that "Re: Lakeland Campsites" is dated 28/04/36.

Both Adrian's & Ron's postings since are ok though.
Wierd ..... :-(
 
-- 

Mike Coverdale, Ormskirk, Lancashire, UK.
Looking for a pair of stainless steel gaiters.




Subject: skye
From: stonflo3 (stonflo3@breathemail.net)

we are staying in northern skye in june has anybody any info about walking
in this area. thanks in advance.
mike braddock






Subject: Re: Backpack size
From: Pam Scruton (pam.scruton@thedog.cableinet.co.uk)


Adrian Marsh Tupper  wrote

> But can someone explain to me why some folk insist on wearing their
> waterproofs in consistenly fine weather?
>

Many inexperienced people understand the need for waterproofs but don't
believe that a 15 pound fashion fleece from the local cut-price shop won't
be as good as my Berghaus Windstopper.  Then on the hill they find that the
slightest breeze goes right through them and even though the sun is shining
they are feeling cold.  The only remedy they have is to put on the
waterproof.  It's just as well it's good for something - the waterproofs
they have bought are often just 'shower resistant' which means very little.

I have been known to wear my shell in fine weather because  it's too much of
a hassle to take it off and put it in my pack and I don't have enough
pockets on my trousers to transfer the junk from my jacket!






Subject: Re: Backpack size
From: The Ferret (ferret@chateauferret.demon.co.uk)

On Sat, 29 Apr 2000 00:03:46 +0100, Adrian Marsh Tupper
<adrian.tupper@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:


>But can someone explain to me why some folk insist on wearing their 
>waterproofs in consistenly fine weather?

	Because they're windproof; because they include something that
would otherwise have to be a jumper; because they keep stuff in the
pockets; because they feel naked if not wearing a coat; because they
want everyone to see what smart kit they have?


-- 
==========                                             Martin Bucknall
The Ferret                                          Stirling, Scotland
==========                            ferret@chateauferret.demon.co.uk
             * Si tacuisses, professus mansisses *




Subject: Re: advice about Cuillin cf Lakes
From: MikeS (michael.spackman@gibsonsq.nospamdemon.co.uk)

In article <8eergf$qhs$1@supernews.com>, Mike Connell <mike@mountain-
view.co.uk> writes
>
>> There are still other difficulties along the ridge that make it a more
>> fearsome prospect than anything I can recall in the Lakes. The Sgurr
>> A'Madhaidh - Bidein Druim nan Ramh section is no place for nascent
>> scramblers and the tops afterwards until Bruach na Frithe have their
>> moments. It is possible to bypass in places (but not A'Madhaidh?), but
>> this defeats the object.
>>
>While on the area, does anyone know the best way round (over?) the pinnacle
>at the north end of Sgurr a' Mhadaidh's main summit - the one wuth the huge
>slab on its east side? We lost a bl**dy long time there last year.

The only way I've seen is down the slab, turn left under the pinnacle,
then left again up to the other side of it.  Did it first about 10
year's ago as a novice climber without even thinking of using the rope -
no problem.  Then again a couple of years ago and found soloing it scary
and roped up (more cautious? less competent? perhaps all in the mind
because it was thick mist).  It'd be interesting to know if there's a
sensible route over the top instead.

MikeS
>
>TIA
>Mike
>
>--
>**********
>York Mountaineering Club
>http://www.yorkmc.co.uk
>
>

Michael Spackman
Home: 44 Gibson Square, London, N1 0RA; tel(voice and fax): 
  020 7288-1270; email: michael.spackman@gibsonsq.demon.co.uk
NERA: 15 Stratford Place, London, W1N 9AF; tel: 020 7629-6787;
  fax: 020 7629-1635; email: michael.spackman@nera.com
LSE (usually Mondays only): Department of Government, 
  London School of Economics, Houghton Street, London WC2A 2AE;
  tel 020 7955-7193;fax 020 7831-1707; email: m.spackman@lse.ac.uk







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Sent:	07 May 2000 14:32
To:	kal1@lineone.net
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Subject: Re: Corsica Guides
From: Peter Narramore (peter.narramore@spamnot.virgin.net)

In article <8e8vf2$mk8$1@gxsn.com>, "John Wildgoose" 
<john@netgoose.co.uk> wrote:

> Does anyone know of any publications or suggest contact points please?

Have a look at "Landscapes of Corsica" by Noel Rochford (Sunflower).  It
has a selection of walks at various levels of difficulty / length along
with map extracts and background info.

You can find out more at www.sunflowerbooks.co.uk 

HTH

- Pete,
Abingdon.





Subject: Re: Binsey
From: Philip Powell (philip@blencathra.demon.co.uk)

In message <956921830snz@cyclades.demon.co.uk>
          mf@cyclades.demon.co.uk (Michael Farthing) wrote:

>Binsey (Ascent from Bewaldeth) is looking a good candidate for Tim
>and me as our next Wainwright, but I seem to remember some
>discussion about a year ago that access had become rather
>problematic (like an unthethered farmer in one of the fields).
>
>Can anyone shed any light, please?  I'm not desperately afraid of
>unthethered farmers, but I think Tim might be a bit.

It's a long time since I went up from Bewaldeth so I can't comment on
the access via that route. Personally, I'd ascend from Binsey Lodge
and use the time saved to continue over the top and along to West
Crag.

Following on from Mike's post regarding the date in Michael's post, I
think Stuart's right. Michael's messages on this newsreader are dated
as expected but if I view them with Free Agent I get the same error as
Mike. I've not noticed any other messages with the wrongly assigned
date so it may be the combination of posting software/reading
software. 


-- 
Philip Powell
Looking north across the Derwent Valley and Northumberland
to The Cheviot 




Subject: Re: Help with Hadrian's Wall
From: Stuart Baldwin (stuart@boxatrix.demon.co.uk)

On Sun, 16 Apr 2000 19:44:36 +0100, "Ian Ellis"
<Ian.EREMOVETHISBIT@tesco.net> wrote:

>Michael Mee <Mmee@btinternet.com> wrote in message
>news:8dcksr$b55$1@uranium.btinternet.com...
>> ... considering walking Hadrian's Wall .....Can anyone offer any advice or
>suggestions which may help planning?
>
>No planning tips as such but.....I reckon "A Walk Along the Wall" by Hunter
>Davies is excellent background reading. And if you enjoy that, the two other
>Walk books, "A Walk around the Lakes" and "A Walk along the Tracks" are also
>highly recommended.

Not a guide book as such, but AW devotes about 40 pages of his book 'A
Pennine Journey'[1] to the Wall and clearly regards it as the highlight
of the trip.

The book is about a journey he made in 1938, on the eve of the outbreak
of war, walking up the east side of the pennines, along the Wall for a
bit, then back down the west side.

It remains, in my opinion, one of the best 'trip reports' I've ever
read.

[1] A Pennine Journey, A. Wainwright, Penguin, ISBN 0-14-016893-1
-- 
Stuart Baldwin




Subject: Re: Aultbea cottage to let
From: Stuart Baldwin (stuart@boxatrix.demon.co.uk)

On Wed, 19 Apr 2000 19:09:43 GMT, gripped@crux.u-net.com (Richard Webb)
wrote:

>
>>There appears to be a NATO base under an artificial hill behind the
>>village (not that it wouldnt be a nice place to stay) Having written
>>this is looks so preposterous that I'm doubting my memory !
>
>There is!

I believe that Loch Ewe was a major naval base during the war.  I guess
that the underground stuff would have been built at that time and the
MOD have just stuck around from force of habit (like they do).
-- 
Stuart Baldwin




Subject: Re: Snowdonia trip
From: Michael Ballard (michaelballard@kettlebrook.junglelink.co.uk)

Actually, I lied. I didn't go up the North Ridge at all.  Took a look at it
and it looked pretty daunting.  Is it as bad as it looks?
Nick Lawrence <nick@nlawrence.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8ectlo$t6c$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Having started out at 6.00 am from Aber on Saturday I had already been
> walking for 5 hours by the time I reached Tryfan. Both it and Bristly
Ridge
> were excellent. Did plan to do all the 3000er's  in one go but time was
not
> on my side as I didn't get down to Nant Peris until 6.00pm. This will mean
> another visit later this year to take in Crib Goch and the rest of the
> Snowdon Horseshoe.
>
> Carl Wakelin wrote in message ...
> >Nice hotel. I was there on Sunday and Monday (Easter weekend) - how did
you
> >find Tryfan  and Bristly Ridge ?
> >
> >Carl
> >
> >Nick Lawrence <nick@nlawrence.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> >news:8ea5vr$ta9$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
> >> There is a camp site at Nant Peris opposite the pub! Alternatively
there
> >is
> >> a camp site (2.50 per person per night) just outside Capel Curig on
the
> >> Betsycoed road. It also has the advantage of having the Bryn Tyrch
Hotel
> >> just up the road which serves excellent food - I know I was there last
> >> weekend. I hope the traffic on the hills are not too congested for you.
I
> >> found myself behind a chain of other walkers on the North ridge of
Tryfan
> >> last weekend!
> >> Adrian Scott wrote in message
> >> <956747905.19310.0.nnrp-01.9e98a98a@news.demon.co.uk>...
> >> >Hi
> >> >
> >> >Planning my first trip to Snowdonia the weekend after next. Two
friends
> >and
> >> >I are driving up first thing on Saturday then parking the car and
> walking
> >> up
> >> >Mount Snowdon and then finding somewhere to camp.
> >> >
> >> >Then on the Sunday walking back to the car via another nice walk and
> >going
> >> >home.
> >> >
> >> >We'd like to know if anyone has any advice on where we should park, to
> >> leave
> >> >the car over night. What paths should we take and where we could camp?
> >> >
> >> >If we were to drive up on the Friday night we would probably not reach
> >> >Snowdonia until 10pm does any one know where we could stay. Whether
> >Camping
> >> >or B&B etc. at a reasonably rate.
> >> >
> >> >Cheers
> >> >
> >> >Adrian
> >> >
> >> >Adrian@compan.net
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>






Subject: Re: Snowdonia trip
From: Pedt Scragg (pedt@signpost-design.co.uk)

Michael Ballard <MichaelBallard@kettlebrook.junglelink.co.uk> said

[Tryfan]
>Actually, I lied. I didn't go up the North Ridge at all.  Took a look at it
>and it looked pretty daunting.  Is it as bad as it looks?

No. You can actually avoid most the scrambling and stick to the
rocky/scree path until The Tower. You can even miss the hardest part
with some easy scrambling 45 degrees left into the gully then up the
gully to the notch. Bit of scrambling on the last section and a few
yards to get onto the South Summit.

-- 
Pedt Scragg     http://signpost-design.co.uk/   ODP Editor: http://dmoz.org/
Signpost Web Design, Wrecsam, North Wales




Subject: Great site for cheap cigs.
From: Peter (peterpa@hotmail.com)



--
This site really does work. Ive ordered 3 times and no problems.
http://www.epcigarettes.com









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Subject: Pembrokeshire Coastal Path
From: Neill Schofield (neill.schofield@care4free.net)

Has anyone done the Pembrokeshire Coastal Path?
We did Offas Dyke last summer, and thought that it was brilliant. Initial
plans were to do the Pembrokeshire this year, but there seem to be a lot of
oil refineries, power stations and Ministry of Defence land in the southern
part. Are they a problem?
Neill






Subject: Re: peak district mailing list?
From: Neill Schofield (neill.schofield@care4free.net)

It was on ONElist, which has now been taken over by egroups. The address of
the overall homepage is www.egroups.com , but at present they seem to have
lost this group in the transition. It might be worth trying in a few days.
On ONE it was peak_district.
Hope that you find it!
Neill
Robert HolmesPOP_Server=pop.freeuk.net <rholmes@freeuk.com> wrote in message
news:diuH4.7697$jk1.146826@nnrp4.clara.net...
> I'm sure that there was a reference to a Peak District mailing list in
this
> forum the last couple of months but I'll be blowed if i can remember
> who/what/where it is.  Anybody know of it?  Thanks - Robert
>
>






Subject: Re: Pembrokeshire Coastal Path
From: chris gilbert (gilbert.mrchristopher@dtn.ntl.com)



Neill Schofield wrote:
 
> Has anyone done the Pembrokeshire Coastal Path?
> We did Offas Dyke last summer, and thought that it was brilliant. Initial
> plans were to do the Pembrokeshire this year, but there seem to be a lot of
> oil refineries, power stations and Ministry of Defence land in the southern
> part. Are they a problem?

While they're quite an intrusion while you're in and around Milford
Haven it doesn't really detract too much from the remainder of the
walk which is through some fabulous countryside. You could always
give that bit of the path a miss. Why not start at St Ishmaels and
go North ?

Chris
--
Looking South across the Erewash valley to
the church at Selston




Subject: Re: Accom in Snowdonia
From: Nick Hill (nick@penninedata.com)

On Sat, 22 Apr 2000 09:07:19 +0100, "Pete Webb"
<Peter_Webb@intermicro.co.uk> wrote:
>...Does anyone know a holiday cottage provider who would let us rent a cottage
>...for a Friday & Saturday night only

Try the Lincoln Mountineering Club - hut sleeps up to 16 and only a
couple of miles from Llanberis:
  www.lincolnmountaineeringclub.org.uk

Nick.

________________________________________________
Pennine Data - Making IT easy.
Commercial software development for laboratories and quality management.
Web design and hosting with e-commerce.

nick@penninedata.com
http://www.penninedata.com




Subject: Re: Pembrokeshire Coastal Path
From: Mark Burch (mbu@tregellas.demon.co.uk)

The M.O.D. land near Castlemartin is a very attractive walk. There's a
diversion when the tanks are firing! The oil industry is only around Milford
Haven, and much of the Haven is good walking - and seeing the enormous
tankers berthing is quite interesting. This is only about 10-15% of the
whole Pembrokeshire Coast Path and the rest of it is largely unspoiled. If
you've done any of the South West Coast Path, I'd say that, apart from
Milford Haven, the Pembrokeshire area is less spoiled, with some beautiful
remote bits particularly on the North Coast. Enjoy it.

Mark

Neill Schofield wrote in message <8ehf6q$3rl$1@lure.pipex.net>...
>We did Offas Dyke last summer, and thought that it was brilliant. Initial
>plans were to do the Pembrokeshire this year, but there seem to be a lot of
>oil refineries, power stations and Ministry of Defence land in the southern
>part. Are they a problem?








Subject: Re: The 'Peaks'
From: Eric Turnbull (eric@meec.demon.co.uk)

In article <8eblhm$ph8$1@gxsn.com>, John Wildgoose <john@netgoose.co.uk>
writes
> 50.00 to anyone with a
>humorous line on our surname I have not yet heard......... ;-)

An anagram of your name is 'Old Wise Hog Jon'.
Can I have my 50 ?
 
Eric




Subject: Re: Medium or Heavyweight Barbour ?
From: W.D.Grey (bill@graigroad.demon.co.uk)

In article <8ed265$t7r$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, martin_bridger@my-deja.com
writes
>My mediumweight Border jacket has given up the ghost after only 8 years
>use ... that's to say I was quoted over 100 to refurbish it.
>I am thinking of getting a heavyweight Northumbria ...and wonder if a)
>it is much more hard-wearing b)it would be suitable for(easygoing)
>rambles Oct>Apr without suffering heat exhaustion.I have always been
>comfortable in the Border on such outings.I feel the cold a lot I might
>add ...and wear a woolly even in June.
>A friend tells me Mascot thornproofs are just as good ...slightly
>cheaper but just lack the prestigious name of Barbour.
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Before you buy.
The Northumbria is a brilliant coat, but it *is* heavyweight. Excellent
on a cold very wet day, but like a sauna on a milder muggy day. I'd go
for the Border. I bought my Northumbria many years ago and it was not
too long before out of necessity I bought my Border which I have worn
far more frequently.

Wearing the Northumbria is like wearing a shed by comparison.

You'd be better off spending a few bob more and getting a decent Gortex
Jacket and wearing in conjunction with a fleece. Both warm and light.
-- 
Bill
http://www.graigroad.demon.co.uk




Subject: walking in pembrokeshire
From: gillie (gill@ficeramics.freeserve.co.uk)

We are going on holiday to Pembrokeshire soon and want to do lots of walking
but will not be able to do the whole of the coast path. has anyone any
recommendations for books/web sites with info about walking in this area?
Thanks
Gill & Lara






Subject: Online Hiking Magazine - new edition
From: Lou Johnson (walking.britain@nationwideisp.net)

The new edition has just been published

http://www.walkingbritain.co.uk

Hiking in Britain & The World












Subject: Two climbers die on Buchaille Etive Mhor in Glencoe
From: Rob Nicholson (rob.nicholson@unforgettable.com)

Another two unfortunate deaths in Glen Coe:

http://news2.thls.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/scotland/newsid%5F724000/724746.st
m

We followed the Glen Coe mountain rescue team up the valley on the same day
and they stopped by Buchaille Etive :-(

Now I know why we just walk up the hill.

Rob.






Subject: Re: Medium or Heavyweight Barbour ?
From: doodlebug (flying@bomb.com)

Now this is good advice. VERY good advice, I speak as someone who has owned
both Barbours and the Goretex/Fleece combination.

Barbours are for posing only, I'm afraid.

W.D.Grey wrote in message ...
>In article <8ed265$t7r$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, martin_bridger@my-deja.com
>writes
>>My mediumweight Border jacket has given up the ghost after only 8 years
>>use ... that's to say I was quoted over 100 to refurbish it.
>>I am thinking of getting a heavyweight Northumbria ...and wonder if a)
>>it is much more hard-wearing b)it would be suitable for(easygoing)
>>rambles Oct>Apr without suffering heat exhaustion.I have always been
>>comfortable in the Border on such outings.I feel the cold a lot I might
>>add ...and wear a woolly even in June.
>>A friend tells me Mascot thornproofs are just as good ...slightly
>>cheaper but just lack the prestigious name of Barbour.
>>
>>
>>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>>Before you buy.
>The Northumbria is a brilliant coat, but it *is* heavyweight. Excellent
>on a cold very wet day, but like a sauna on a milder muggy day. I'd go
>for the Border. I bought my Northumbria many years ago and it was not
>too long before out of necessity I bought my Border which I have worn
>far more frequently.
>
>Wearing the Northumbria is like wearing a shed by comparison.
>
>You'd be better off spending a few bob more and getting a decent Gortex
>Jacket and wearing in conjunction with a fleece. Both warm and light.
>--
>Bill
>http://www.graigroad.demon.co.uk






Subject: Re: Scaffel Pike Conditions
From: doodlebug (flying@bomb.com)

Where on earth is "Scaffel Pike"?
Perhaps you mean somewhere else of a similar name......?

Carl Wakelin wrote in message ...
>Anyone know what Scaffel Pike and surrounding area is like at the moment -
I
>went around this time last year and it was very waterlogged ! Thinking of
>going this Sunday but perhaps not is it's too wet.
>
>Thanks
>
>Carl
>
>






Subject: Re: Free Ordnance Survey maps
From: Niall Harran (niallharran@nasuwt.net)


"Horace Delaney" <hdelaneydelete@deletecovercd.co.uk> wrote in message
news:_7KN4.8015$sB3.5755@news.indigo.ie...
> The software package 'Ordnance Survey Atlas of Great Britain' is free on a
> magazine cover CD this month.
>
> Horace
>

Not exactly free but "Hammick's" bookshop in Spindles Oldham are doing a 2
for 3 offer on all OS maps. As a newcomer to the UK I don't know how
widespread these shops are but if there's one near you its worth a look.

Niall
--
In the mountains no-one counts the days
 - Chinese Proverb
Teachers open the door, but you enter by yourself.
  -Unknown

Have a break and let us create your dream website.
http://siestadesigns.tripod.com







Subject: Re: Mobile Phones
From: dontspamme.ivan_n (ivan@incomputing.freeserve.co.uk)

I don't know, leave your computer at home. Come the evening, after a good
days walking you want to be in the pub grabbing some food & ale - leave your
emails till you get back. ;)


On Sun, 23 Apr 2000 08:59:13 GMT, CHRIS KENWARD <KENWARDC@TGIS.CO.UK> wrote:
> Hi All
> 
> Does anyone know how well GSM phones work in the Ambleside area? I am
> taking my computer with me and would like to be able to grab email in
> the evenings if possible.
> 
> Regards
> Chris Kenward
> .





Subject: Re: Hats
From: Jon Doran (jon@nozzer.demon.co.uk)

In article <8dkjck$se0$1@news.ox.ac.uk>,
Gordon.Riddell@comlab.ox.ac.uk mooted that:


>
>I got a nice bit of sun in the Brecon Beacons in March
>which reminded me that I need to get a hat for sunny
>weather as I find that even with a good dollop of 
>Factor 15 I still get too much sun. But what to wear?
>
>I can only think of cricket hats but they all seem to
>come in white which might be okay but, well, it'll get
>dirty.
>
Royal Robbins do a neat cross between a Foreign Legion-style cap and a
baseball cap. The 'skirt' which protects the back of your neck is
detachable with press stud fixings so you can look like johnny Petrolhead
when driving home if that's your thing.

Not cheap, but works well.

Tilley Hats might be durable but the bloody things weigh a ton...

Cheers

Jon






Subject: Re: Tilley Hat
From: Jon Doran (jon@nozzer.demon.co.uk)

In article <8e2ckm$155t$1@news.beeb.net>,
"Kevin West" <kevinwest@beeb.net> waffled rather dreamily that:


>Are they any good?
>Reports appreciated
>Regards,
>Kev
>
They are surprisingly heavy for a hat which might be a consideration.

Jon







Subject: Re: GPS & selective availability
From: Mike Coverdale (mike@westhead.net)

Gordon Harris <gordon@g3snx.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>
>I won't hold my breath . . .  Anyway, if the accuracy got any better
>than it is, navigation would become boring.

Wall Street Journal, 1.5.2000 - Pentagon Will Clear Military GPS
Signals For Use by Civilians. The Pentagon is to share the most
accurate Global Positioning System data. The decision is expected to
go into effect Monday night, benefiting the many civilian users of
satellite-based navigation systems.
-- 

Mike Coverdale, Ormskirk, Lancashire, UK.
Looking for a pair of stainless steel gaiters.




Subject: Re: Mobile Phones
From: CHRIS KENWARD (kenwardc@tgis.co.uk)


Hi there

On Mon, 01 May 2000 10:38:04 +0100, you wrote:

> I don't know, leave your computer at home. Come the evening, after a good
> days walking you want to be in the pub grabbing some food & ale - leave your
> emails till you get back. ;)

You obviously don't run your own business! <grin>

Here's the answer to the question I asked. The GSM reception (at least
on the CELLnet network) is fantastic in the Ambleside area. A full 5/5
even when we were walking up those slopes! Email via GSM worked a
treat.

Regards
Chris Kenward
.




Subject: Re: Free Ordnance Survey maps
From: Gordon Harris (gordon@g3snx.demon.co.uk)

In article <8ea5g2$1l6$1@neptunium.btinternet.com>, Niall Harran
<niallharran@nasuwt.net> writes
>
>Not exactly free but "Hammick's" bookshop in Spindles Oldham are doing a 2
>for 3 offer on all OS maps. As a newcomer to the UK I don't know how
>widespread these shops are but if there's one near you its worth a look.
>
>Niall

There's one in Stockport Cheshire, and others no doubt.
What happens is you pick 3 and get the cheapest one free.
-- 
Gordon






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Subject: Re: Snowdonia trip
From: Chris Crocker (chris@crocknospamer.org)

In article <rhWh+eALhBD5EwzA@pedt.demon.co.uk>, Pedt Scragg
<pedt@signpost-design.co.uk> writes
>Michael Ballard <MichaelBallard@kettlebrook.junglelink.co.uk> said
>
>[Tryfan]
>>Actually, I lied. I didn't go up the North Ridge at all.  Took a look at it
>>and it looked pretty daunting.  Is it as bad as it looks?
>
>No. You can actually avoid most the scrambling and stick to the
>rocky/scree path until The Tower. You can even miss the hardest part
>with some easy scrambling 45 degrees left into the gully then up the
>gully to the notch. Bit of scrambling on the last section and a few
>yards to get onto the South Summit.

I descended this route last year, with no prior knowledge.  I found no
difficulty at all - no harder than the standard route IMHO.
 
Chris C
(remove <nospam> from address when replying)




Subject: Re: Protection from UV
From: Chris Crocker (chris@crocker.org)

Mainly hype in my opinion.  The assertion is certainly not true - I wear
cotton shirts a lot and never get more than a slight tan on my torso!
Probably they do let in some UV, but who needs 100% protection anyway?
Chris

In article <8ef2ln$ggc$1@news.beeb.net>, Kevin West <kevinwest@beeb.net>
writes
>I tried this post under a different title with no response, so here goes
>again.
>
>
>Is there any science behind the SPF labels in clothes or is it just a price
>hype.
>I do a lot of long distance walking and am very aware of the potential
>exposure I could be subjecting myself to. I rwad an article that ordinary
>cotton and polyester shirts are virtually transparent to damaging UV.  Any
>truth?
>Apologies if you've already covered this one.
>Regards,
>Kev
>
>
>
>

 
Chris C
(remove <nospam> from address when replying)




Subject: Re: Coast to Coast Path
From: Chris Crocker (chris@crocknospamer.org)

In article <20000501123417.22717.00001660@ng-cg1.aol.com>, Mtwhitney62
<mtwhitney62@aol.com> writes
>I live in California and in previous postings I read about people having
>problems finding somewhere to stay on Bank Holiays. When are those holidays?
>I am starting the hike on May 28th, in which direction should I go to avoid the
>lack of accommodation problem?
>In a previous posting someone recommended accommodation and guide books; I can
>not get them before I leave, can I buy them locally?
>Can any one recommend a place to stay at either trail head?
>Any advice at all would be greatly appreciated.
>Thank you  Christa

May 29 is a bank holiday and a lot of families take the whole week off
as the kids are on half-term holiday.  It's one of the busiest weeks in
the year so if you don't book accommodation in advance you could well
struggle.  Most people walk west to east, as described by Wainwright and
subsequent guidebooks, so things may be a little easier in the reverse
direction (plus you won't be repeatedly meeting the same walkers).

You can get the Coast to Coast Accommodation Guide, a small booklet that
gives B&B and camp sites, from lots of outdoor shops or from
MRS. DOREEN WHITEHEAD, BUTT HOUSE, KELD, RICHMOND, NORTH YORKSHIRE. DL11
6LJ.
Tel: +44 (0) 1748 886374

Youth hostels can be booked over the Web.  Don't leave this too late,
some may be booked out already.

There is also an agency which will book all your accommodation for you
(for a fee) but I don't have the details - some other reader will
doubtless know.

It's much nicer to be able to improvise as you go along, I know, but
that's very risky at this time of year unless you camp.
 
Chris C
(remove <nospam> from address when replying)




Subject: Re: Calculating height gain?
From: Chris Crocker (chris@crocknospamer.org)

In article <2000043022320168959@zetnet.co.uk>, Roger Chapman
<r.chapman@zetnet.co.uk> writes
>The message <8eht8q$22v$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>
>  from  "Paul Rose" <paul@rose159.freeserve.co.uk> contains these words: 
>
>> Started from Keswick (Spooney Green Lane) to Skiddaw  (2850ft) - Skiddaw
>> Little Man (190ft) - Lonscale Fell (175ft)  back up Jenkin Hill towards
>> Skiddaw Little Man to join the fence/stile at GR 272275 (264ft). Then on
>> down to the carpark at Gale Road end before following the zig-zag path up
>> Mallen Dodd to reach Latrigg (389ft) then down through the woods to Keswick.
>
>> My estimated combined height gain was (2850 + 190 + 175 + 264 + 389) 3868
>> feet. Am I any where near or is it back to the drawing board?
>
>Not sure where you get some of your heights from but Wainwright and 
>the OS have some marginal differences. FWIW working from the 1:25,000 
>I would have calculated it thus:
>(Your figures in brackets)
>
>Skiddaw                  3054
>Spooney Green Lane say    294   2760   (2850)
>
>Little Man               2837
>Col say                  2687    150    (190)
>
>Lonscale Fell            2344
>Col say                  2184    160    (175)
>
>Jenkin Hill              2415
>Col say                  2185    230    (264)
>
>Latrigg say              1203
>Gale Road say             893    310    (389)
>
>                                3300   (3868)
>

Wainwright is usually very accurate on height gain (of course he was
using old maps but the difference is negligible for your purposes) but
for some reason he consistently overestimates distances.  Perhaps he was
allowing for paths not being straight.
 
Chris C
(remove <nospam> from address when replying)




Subject: Re: The Banana Paradox
From: Chris Crocker (chris@crocknospamer.org)

In article <MtR0wBAH4XD5Ew35@g3snx.demon.co.uk>, Gordon Harris
<gordon@g3snx.demon.co.uk> writes

<snip>
>
>Orange peel seems to last a long time, drink cans, etc.
>
>>and even if they were, this is hardly
>>an excuse for leaving garbage lying around.....
>>
>I quite agree, but vegetable matter is quickly assimilated by nature or
>eaten by animals, I find man made stuff more offensive, cigarette butts
>are particularly irritating.

My understanding is that orange peel takes a long time to biodegrade but
banana skins decompose much faster (despite reports of Roman banana
remains being found during recent excavations in London).  Any experts
out there?
 
Chris C
(remove <nospam> from address when replying)




Subject: Re: GPS & selective availability
From: David Prow (djprow@globalnet.co.uk)

> Presumably this will improve accuracy of GPS by oodles.  With a bit of
luck
> this may just persuade the major contributor to the joint bank account
that
> this gadget is worth having.
>
>
>
It should be accurate to about 10-15m and to 1.5m in altitude

DP







Subject: Renting Tents?
From: Daniel Tuck (daniel.tuck@net.ntl.com)

I need to rent a tent or a bivi thing for just one night any idea how I
could go about doing this?

Thanks in advance,

Daniel






Subject: Re: advice about Cuillin cf Lakes
From: Janet Moxley (janet@moxley.fsnet.co.uk)

The Bidean Druim nan Ramh is also complicated by there being bits of abseil
tat everywhere, but most of it is not anywhere that takes you anywhere.
Spent about on hour up there absing down blind alleys then having to climb
back out.

--
Cheers
Janet

Remove NOSPAM from return address before replying
Osman <roy@gseed.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8echi2$7ce$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "Stephen Reid, Needle Sports, Keswick" <info@needlesports.com> wrote
> in message news:39094117.968AAEA9@needlesports.com...
> > Whilst the technical difficulties of the entire ridge, with the
> > exception of the TD Gap, Kings Chimney, The In Pin and Naismith's
> Route
> > are nowhere very great, the size and nature of the range and
> > difficulties of navigation are much more serious than in the Lakes.
> >
> There are still other difficulties along the ridge that make it a more
> fearsome prospect than anything I can recall in the Lakes. The Sgurr
> A'Madhaidh - Bidein Druim nan Ramh section is no place for nascent
> scramblers and the tops afterwards until Bruach na Frithe have their
> moments. It is possible to bypass in places (but not A'Madhaidh?), but
> this defeats the object.
>
> --
> Graham
>
>






Subject: Re: The Official Wainwright Gazetteer - where?
From: Janet Moxley (janet@moxley.fsnet.co.uk)


http://abebooks.com has links to loads of second hand book shops. Probably
find it somewhere there.
--
Cheers
Janet

Remove NOSPAM from return address before replying
Paul Rose <paul@rose159.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8ef64r$apr$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> Hi All
>
> I've recently had a book out from the library "The Official Wainwright
> Gazetteer" compiled by Peter Linney. I've been looking to buy the book but
> apparently it's out of print, I think it was published in 1993. Does
anyone
> know how I may go about getting hold of a copy? Perhaps a web site or a
> bookshop specialising in out of print books? Any help or advice would be
> much appreciated.
>
> --
> All the best, Paul R
> in Middlesbrough, England, UK.
>
> Researching ROSE in Cleveland, Durham and Suffolk.
>
>
>






Subject: Re: GPS & selective availability
From: Gordon Harris (gordon@g3snx.demon.co.uk)

In article <8ekn6g$2am$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>, Neal Milne <neal@njtm.fr
eeservenospam.co.uk> writes
>
>"ken cross" <ken@bdandm.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:8ekl67$hfv$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk...
>> Does this mean, those sad souls with GPS will know where they are?
>> I think not!
>
>Troll!!
>
Yeaah, deserves a proper answer.

At last!  Now I can throw away my Silva, (which isn't as useful as a GPS
even before midnight).

(Electronic Troll).
-- 
Gordon





Subject: Re: Windproof Fleece
From: Graeme Cogger (graeme.cogger@freedom2surf.co.uk)

Have you ever tried this stuff (or Karisma fleece, in my case) as a base
layer? I had to once (fell in a stream, everything else soaked!), and
was surprised how good it was. It was warm when needed, but not too warm
when the sun came out, and I had no problems with sweat build-up (I
sweat a lot!). I'm tempted to use it as a winter base layer...

Graeme Cogger

Peter Clinch wrote:
> 
> Mike Connell wrote:
> >
> > Try the Mountain Equipment Ultrafleece jackets, they're windproof and also
> > fairly waterproof without being sweaty. I swear by the Ultrafleece Mountain
> > Jacket, but they do others.
> 
> Even as a fan of the U-fleece Mountain Jacket (have yet to see any other
> fleece, at any price, I'd trade mine for), I should point out they're
> *not* windproof.
> 
> They're substantially *more* windproof than most fleeces (i.e., Polartec
> x00, Bipolar, Aleutian, Synchilla etc.), and I find windproof *enough*
> for most things, but that's still not quite the same as windproof,
> period.
> 
> Pete.
> --
> Peter Clinch                    University of Dundee
> Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637   Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
> Fax 44 1382 640177              Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
> net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk     http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/




Subject: Re: The 'Peaks'
From: Stuart Baldwin (stuart@boxatrix.demon.co.uk)

On Mon, 1 May 2000 15:12:20 +0100, "Alex"
<alex@clockwork.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

>> As an aside: IMO, the status of pseudonymous posters is possibly the
>> least understood aspect of Usenet amongst those who would seek to
>> criticise it.
>> --
>> Stuart Baldwin
>
>Hi,
>
>I don't know what you mean by this ?  Do pseudonymous posters have a
>paticular status on Usenet ?

Getting a bit off-topic, but I don't think it's written down anywhere (I
did say IMO!).  In my experience, when someone posts under a pseudonym
to a newsgroup on a regular basis it really doesn't seem to matter.  One
group that I used to follow had a number of pseudonymous posters and I
met one of them on three or four occasions at group meets without ever
knowing (or needing to know) his real name!
-- 
Stuart Baldwin




Subject: Re: GPS & selective availability
From: Osman (roy@gseed.freeserve.co.uk)


"Gordon Harris" <gordon@g3snx.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:CU2nOAAY2eD5EwkH@g3snx.demon.co.uk...
> In article <8ekn6g$2am$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>, Neal Milne
<neal@njtm.fr
> eeservenospam.co.uk> writes
> >
> >"ken cross" <ken@bdandm.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> >news:8ekl67$hfv$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk...
> >> Does this mean, those sad souls with GPS will know where they
are?
> >> I think not!
> >
> >Troll!!
> >
> Yeaah, deserves a proper answer.
>
> At last!  Now I can throw away my Silva, (which isn't as useful as a
GPS
> even before midnight).
>
> (Electronic Troll).
> --
> Gordon
>

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz........
--
Grah...zzzzzz






Subject: Sheepskin Slippers-VERY CHEAP
From: blackwinterday@my-deja.com (blackwinterday@my-deja.com)

Great Sheepskin slippers on Ebay:

size 6-7:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=321692532

size 8-10:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=321686426

size 10-12:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=321696990


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.




Subject: New web site for Kielder
From: gnpltd (paula@gnp.co.uk)

Just wanted to tell you about a comprehensive new website that has been
launched about Kielder in Northumberland, which contains Europe's
largest man-made lake, Kielder Water, inside one of England's largest
nature resorts, Kielder Forest.  The website has a mountain of
information for the visitor.  The URL is www.kielder.org

-- 
Paula Williams
GNP 
There's a whole world out there!
paula@gnp.co.uk




Subject: clibming and walking magazines for sale
From: stevew885 (stevew885@netscapeonline.co.uk)

i have about 15 bags full of climbing and outdoor magazine. im only look

for about 10 for the lot, but buyer collects. im in the northwest of
england.

email if interested


steve







Subject: Re: Calculating height gain?
From: Michael Farthing (mf@cyclades.demon.co.uk)

In article <7GOn8iA6OdD5EwTh@biber.fsnet.co.uk>
           chris@crocknospamer.org "Chris Crocker" writes:

> Wainwright is usually very accurate on height gain (of course he was
> using old maps but the difference is negligible for your purposes) but
> for some reason he consistently overestimates distances.  Perhaps he was
> allowing for paths not being straight.

Yes, he did this intentionally, but it was to allow for the fact that
when walking up/down hill one walks on the hypotenuse and not the base
of a triangle.  See PW Page ix for a frank admission with regard to his
Pennine Way description.

-- 
Michael Farthing
cyclades
software house





Subject: Re: Binsey
From: Michael Farthing (mf@cyclades.demon.co.uk)

In article <390b072e.6576483@news.u-net.com>
           mike@westhead.net "Mike Coverdale" writes:

> Been there recently. I parked by the disused 
> quarry near Binsey Cottage (GR 236352).  At 
> the other side of the stile over the wall there 
> is a notice about private ownership and it states 
> that the fell is closed to the public at certain 
> times of the year.  Doesn't give specific dates.

Thanks Mike and Philip.  We followed this route, returning
via West Crag and contouring round the fell above the intake
wall back to the start.  On reading the notice about private
ownership described above I have to say it is a model of what
such a notice should be and already reflects the best spirit of the
Countryside Bill, viz: "This is private; everyone welcome;
we might have to close occasionally for proper land management"
10/10 to Ireby Estates.

In retrospect, I think I'd have preferred to go up the West
Crag end as it has more of a rocky outlook on ascent and
scambling back up crags you've just descended isn't quite
the same as scrambling up them on the way to the top!

Incidentally, the trig station on the top is one of the new
revamped ones that form part of the GPS network discussed here
a few months ago.  Basically, selected points (usually historic
trig points) have been resurveyed to provide fixed points where
the OS and GPS measuring systems have been exactly correlated.

Timothy and I nearly came to blows over our interest in natural
history.  I was trying to identify some sort of raptor, but was
forcefully detached from my binoculars so that Timothy could
show me a sheep skull he'd found.

On the whole, however, I won't make Binsey top of my list for a
revisit and I'm rather glad we didn't do it until Tim was able
to walk the whole way: I have this suspicion that as we approach
the magic 214 Tim might feel duty bound to redo the ones he's
only done by packhorse.

-- 
Michael Farthing
cyclades
software house





Subject: Re: Backpack size
From: Peter Clinch (p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk)

The Reids wrote:
> 
> >  I don't actually wear waterproofs that
> >> often compared to baselayers,

> A lot of people are loath to put on waterproof trousers because they
> have skimped and they ones they have dont fit.

I used to have some rather good Sprayway Goretex ones, but I lost them
(when I actually discovered I'd lost them, I worked out I'd last seen
them 18 months before...).

I hate them becuase I get too hot in them, and because they rustle every
time I take a step, because they're more prone to catch on crampons than
the stretch legwear I much prefer, and because they *rustle* every time
I take a step, and because they're a pain to put on, even if they have
full side zips, and because they *RUSTLE* every time I take a step,
because they don't allow as much freedom of movement as if I'm not
wearing them, because they *BLOODY RUSTLE* every time I take a step,
because they make self arrest more problematical by boosting one's speed
over snow and ice, and finally because the *DAMN THINGS BLOODY RUSTLE*
every time I take a step.  

Sorry, I just hate them, however well they fit, and until such time as
they create silent ones that stretch with my leg movements I doubt I'll
get interested.  I prefer to get wet, and just dry out nice and quickly.

The ones I have now actually fit quite nicely, but the above problems
all apply.  Especially the rustling.

Pete.
-- 
Peter Clinch			University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637	Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177		Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk	http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/




Subject: Re: that time of year
From: Emmanuelle (gillardreid@mcmail.com)

W.D.Grey wrote:

>When else would Emmanuelle get her tan?
Bonjour Billy,
Sacred Blue ! I 'ave just read in another thread that eet is possible
to tan through the clothes !  Where is the fun in that?
Au Revoir,
Emmanuelle
"If vous cannot be bonne, be bonne at eet"
Mon visage dans "http://www.fellwalker.mcmail.com/page23.htm"





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Subject: Re: The Banana Paradox
From: Roy (r.parrish@btinternet.com)


Gordon Harris wrote in message ...
>In article <390d68b1.20290876@news.one.net.au>, David Springthorpe
><dspringy@one.net.au> writes
>>On Mon, 1 May 2000 09:27:01 +0100, Gordon Harris
>><gordon@g3snx.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>Perhaps because banana skins are rapidly bio-degradable, although if
>>>they tossed them out of sight nobody would notice.
>>
>>No more so than anyting else.....
>
>Orange peel seems to last a long time, drink cans, etc.
>
>>and even if they were, this is hardly
>>an excuse for leaving garbage lying around.....
>>
>I quite agree, but vegetable matter is quickly assimilated by nature or
>eaten by animals, I find man made stuff more offensive, cigarette butts
>are particularly irritating.


I find it all irritating, even if it is bio-degradable, it's litter. Take it
home and put it on the compost heap.

It amazes me that people can carry sweets, drinks, etc. UP the hill but seem
to run out of sufficient strength to carry the empties (bags, cans, peel),
DOWN again.

Regards,

Roy.






Subject: Re: Tilley Hat
From: BOB WATKINSON (bob@bwatkinson.freeserve.co.uk)

They are just unbeatable Ian. I love mine. Had it for a year now but it has
yet to pass through the intestines of an elephant to give it a real test.


Liz wrote in message <8ecqh4$kig$1@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>I know they look a bit sad,(my workmates ask where the corks are) I
>have a navy one, we live in Scotland, and I wouldn't be without mine.
>I know I shouldnt, but when it is raining, I leave my cycle helmet at
>home and wear the tilley, at least I have a warm & dry head.  Go for it
>they are amazing.
>Liz
>In article <172DmAAikhB5EwA7@melindwr.demon.co.uk>,
>  Ian Sant <Ian@melindwr.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> In article <8e2ckm$155t$1@news.beeb.net>, Kevin West
>> <kevinwest@beeb.net> writes
>> >Are they any good?
>> >Reports appreciated
>> >Regards,
>> >Kev
>> >
>> >
>> Had one for two years now and it keeps off both mid Wales rain and
>> Provenal sun. Gets a bit sweaty in hot weather but less than any
>other
>> hat I've had and looks a lot better than the standard British sun hat!
>> --
>> Ian Sant
>>
>
>--
>Liz J
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Before you buy.






Subject: Re: Binsey
From: Richard Webb (gripped@crux.u-net.com)

On Fri, 28 Apr 00 11:37:10 GMT, mf@cyclades.demon.co.uk (Michael
Farthing) wrote:

>Binsey (Ascent from Bewaldeth) is looking a good candidate for Tim and me
>as our next Wainwright, but I seem to remember some discussion about a year
>ago that access had become rather problematic (like an unthethered farmer
>in one of the fields).

I do believe this is a hill that THEY do not want you to go up. 
The approach you mentioned is signed with the usual c**p but there are
alternatives, useful especialy at lambing time. 

I went up from the bridleway from Fell End. This gets through the
fields ok, wanders across the moor below the West end. You can wander
up a reentrant out of sight of the farm here, but you may encounter a
barking gamey wandering the heights. I did not have any problems.  Its
a rather pleasant hill with a good view, shame I did it on a foul
afternoon, so no piccies in Sub3000 unfortunately.

Ann Bowker is on her travels at the moment, but I'm sure she is an
expert on the topic.. Try her site  keswick.u-net.com

Richard Webb
Sub3000 http://www.crux.u-net.com




Subject: Re: Two climbers die on Buchaille Etive Mhor in Glencoe
From: Richard Webb (gripped@crux.u-net.com)



>Now I know why we just walk up the hill.

Doesent make you immune..... Especialy on the Buachaille
Complacent 'walkers' should peruse the accidents chapter in the SMC
Journal. Blood chilling stuff.

Richard Webb
Occasional climber - Confirmed Bumbly




Subject: Re: Washing Wet Gear
From: Richard Webb (gripped@crux.u-net.com)

On Sat, 22 Apr 2000 09:49:12 GMT, "Niall Harran"
<niallharran@nasuwt.net> wrote:

>
>> And try to avoid those bogs in future.... ;-)
>> --

Avoid bogs in Donegal???

Good Luck!

Richard Webb




Subject: Re: TR: Freedom is a place called Ardnamurchan
From: Richard Webb (gripped@crux.u-net.com)

On Mon, 01 May 2000 22:26:46 +0100, chris gilbert
<gilbert.mrchristopher@dtn.ntl.com> wrote:

I was there last year - rather good . Impressive gabbro crags
Photos at :
http://www.crux.u-net.com/May99/BeinnnaSeilg
http://www.crux.u-net.com/May99/MeallnaCon

Richard Webb




Subject: Re: Auchiltibuie
From: Richard Webb (gripped@crux.u-net.com)

The small hill of Meall an  Fheadain is well worth a wander up on a
good day...


Richard Webb




Subject: Re: Binsey
From: Richard Webb (gripped@crux.u-net.com)

On Fri, 28 Apr 2000 21:49:05 GMT, mike@westhead.net (Mike Coverdale)
wrote:

>As far as I know that's the only 'permitted' way 
>on to the fell but my Outdoor Leisure 4 map 
>doesn't show any rights of way at all.  The track 
>I used is well worn so I wouldn't expect any 
>hassle there.  There is a right of way shown 
>from Fell End Farm but there's nowhere to park 
>a car there.

There is, a few hundred yrds up the road to the east. Wide firm verges

Richard Webb




Subject: Re: Backpack size/waterproofs
From: Paul Rose (paul@rose159.freeserve.co.uk)




Peter Clinch <p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:390E9FFF.A853912C@dundee.ac.uk...
>
> I used to have some rather good Sprayway Goretex ones, but I lost them
> (when I actually discovered I'd lost them, I worked out I'd last seen
> them 18 months before...).
>
> I hate them becuase I get too hot in them, and because they rustle every
> time I take a step, because they're more prone to catch on crampons than
> the stretch legwear I much prefer, and because they *rustle* every time
> I take a step, and because they're a pain to put on, even if they have
> full side zips, and because they *RUSTLE* every time I take a step,
> because they don't allow as much freedom of movement as if I'm not
> wearing them, because they *BLOODY RUSTLE* every time I take a step,
> because they make self arrest more problematical by boosting one's speed
> over snow and ice, and finally because the *DAMN THINGS BLOODY RUSTLE*
> every time I take a step.
>
> Sorry, I just hate them, however well they fit, and until such time as
> they create silent ones that stretch with my leg movements I doubt I'll
> get interested.  I prefer to get wet, and just dry out nice and quickly.
>
> The ones I have now actually fit quite nicely, but the above problems
> all apply.  Especially the rustling.
>
> Pete.
> --

I wear my Rohan waterproof/windproof bags and don't have to worry about
getting wet or any annoying rusting sounds :o)

--
All the best, Paul R
in Middlesbrough, England, UK.

Researching ROSE in Cleveland, Durham and Suffolk.







Subject: Re: The Official Wainwright Gazetteer - where?
From: Paul Rose (paul@rose159.freeserve.co.uk)


Hi Janet

Thanks for the URL. I'll check it out.
--
All the best, Paul R
in Middlesbrough, England, UK.

Researching ROSE in Cleveland, Durham and Suffolk.


Janet Moxley <janet@moxley.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8ekt9g$s0l$4@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> http://abebooks.com has links to loads of second hand book shops. Probably
> find it somewhere there.
> --
> Cheers
> Janet
>
> Remove NOSPAM from return address before replying
> Paul Rose <paul@rose159.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:8ef64r$apr$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
> >
> > Hi All
> >
> > I've recently had a book out from the library "The Official Wainwright
> > Gazetteer" compiled by Peter Linney. I've been looking to buy the book
but
> > apparently it's out of print, I think it was published in 1993. Does
> anyone
> > know how I may go about getting hold of a copy? Perhaps a web site or a
> > bookshop specialising in out of print books? Any help or advice would be
> > much appreciated.
> >
> > --
> > All the best, Paul R
> > in Middlesbrough, England, UK.
> >
> > Researching ROSE in Cleveland, Durham and Suffolk.
> >
> >
> >
>
>






Subject: Re: TR: Freedom is a place called Ardnamurchan
From: Eric Turnbull (eric@meec.demon.co.uk)

In article <390DF696.2C1A1C1E@dtn.ntl.com>, chris gilbert <gilbert.mrchr
istopher@dtn.ntl.com> writes
> Made me come over all misty eyed that did. :-)

Not as 'misty eyed' as I was after the drinking of the malt:-)
 
Eric




Subject: Re: Garmin Etrex GPS any opinions??
From: Tony Wingrove (tony@g6ldl.freeserver.co.uk)

Hello Marky

I have had one of these for about 6 months now. Nice and basic without all
the bells and whistles. I mainly use it for getting from A to B and also
where there is uncertainty about my location finding out where I am. It is
certainly waterproof as I have used it for most of the winter in some real
soakers. I paid 120 for mine.

Tony.


Marky wrote in message <8el3ib$cf7$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net>...
>Hello,
>
>I am looking to buy a GPS receiver soon, found this one on Garmin website,
>http://www.garmin.com/products/etrex/
>
>Nice and small, cheap entry level model, has anyone here used one and what
>prices seen?
>($120 on USA websites, so maybe 100 here?)
>
>Thanks,
>
>Marky.
>
>






Subject: Wainwrights Last Lakes Video
From: David (david@knibbs96.freeserve.co.uk)

I've been told that Wainright made a last (and I understand somewhat
emotional ) video in the Lakes, partnered by Eric Robson.  I think it was
shown on BBC primetime a while ago.

Does anyone know where I can get a copy to watch please or if you own it,
would you be prepared to make me a copy - obviously I will re-imburse you.
Please let me know.

--

David

Share what you know - Learn what you don't






Subject: Re: Garmin Etrex GPS any opinions??
From: Marky (mark@fannybatter.com)

Hello Tony,

Thanks for that information, shame we pay the same in GBP as Americans pay
in dollars.

There is a new model out soon,The Etrex Summit, with electronic
compass,barometric altimeter, costs about double.
http://www.tvnav.com/etrexsummit.html

Not sure what to do, buy now for 120 or wait and pay 240 for the next
model, but 240 brings many more GPS receivers into the equation.

Thanks,

Marky.


Tony Wingrove <tony@g6ldl.freeserver.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8end12$9d4$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Hello Marky
>
> I have had one of these for about 6 months now. Nice and basic without all
> the bells and whistles. I mainly use it for getting from A to B and also
> where there is uncertainty about my location finding out where I am. It is
> certainly waterproof as I have used it for most of the winter in some real
> soakers. I paid 120 for mine.
>
> Tony.
>
>
> Marky wrote in message <8el3ib$cf7$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net>...
> >Hello,
> >
> >I am looking to buy a GPS receiver soon, found this one on Garmin
website,
> >http://www.garmin.com/products/etrex/
> >
> >Nice and small, cheap entry level model, has anyone here used one and
what
> >prices seen?
> >($120 on USA websites, so maybe 100 here?)
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Marky.
> >
> >
>
>






Subject: Re: TR - West Highland Way ( a bit long)
From: Daniel Tuck (daniel.tuck@net.ntl.com)

Sounded a really good trip. When I was in Edale last weekend we had a full
English breakfast for 3.50 - how good is that?

Have you done the Coast to Coast? I'm planning on doing it this summer, any
tips?

Dan,

Yorkie3011 <yorkie3011@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000502052244.16739.00002924@nso-fo.aol.com...
> This was undertaken by myself - 41 year old bloke (overweight) and my two
> teenage children, Kevin and Melanie.
>
> I figured that the Easter holidays would be a good time what with the kids
off
> school and the midges still safely underground.  No accommodation was
booked
> although we took a tent and employed Travel-Lite to carry all but our day
> packs.  None of us are seasonned walkers and although we had walked before
that
> was last year.
>
> Day One
>
> So after a pastie each from Greigs in Milngavie, car parked safely across
from
> the Police Station  and the photocall at the cairn we were on our way.
Weather
> was bright and sunny and spirits were high.  Travel-lite were dropping our
bags
> off at Easter Drumquassie camp site in Drymen.
>
> We arrived there after a gentle 11 mile walk feeling particularly
knackered and
> wondering if this was such a good idea.  We paid our camp fee 4 per
person and
> was told that we could upgrade to a wigwam if we paid 3 per person more,
I
> declined.
>
> Having seen the wigwams and the oh so comfortable mattresses inside we
quickly
> changed our mind and paid the difference.
>
> The idea was to go into Drymen (20 min walk) for supper, but that seemed
like
> miles now and we settled on bacon sarnies instead!
>
> Day 2
>
> I have to say that this camp site was particularly poor, no hot water!
Excuse
> was that it was the start of the season but apparently that didn't mean we
paid
> less.
>
> Nonetheless we got up and set off for our next destination - Rowardennan
some
> 15 miles along the way.
>
> A quick detour to Drymen for supplies and we were soon in the forest.
> Unfortunately Conic Hill section was closed until 9 May for lambing so we
had
> to detour to the main road and walk along the road to Balmaha.
>
> Now according to my map (Harveys) Balmaha was written in heavy type and
was at
> the foot of Loch Lomond, so I was expecting a place like Bowness on
Windermere,
> what we got was two hotels and 1 shop!  Lunch was had and we continued
along
> the loch sometimes right on its bank sometimes on the road, usually
somewhere
> between the two.
>
> Ross Wood further up was closed so we had to walk along the road when we
got
> our first taste of how the weather up there can change so quickly.  Within
5
> minutes the sun was hidden behind a dirty great black thing, that we soon
> learned continued millions of hailstones!  still it keeps the midges
away.....
>
> Finally got to Rowardennan but after the hailstones the ground was
saturated
> and my plans on camping were not too well received..... and there was a
youth
> hostel.  So thats where we spent night no. 2
>
> Day 3
>
> The day started looking very drizzly and looked like it would be like this
all
> day.  But we did have good waterproofs which were donned before leaving
the
> hostel.
>
> The road  from Balmaha changes into a track here that gets progressively
> smaller and muddier as one continues.  The authorities are rebuilding the
path
> and it was a wonderful relief to get onto the new bit, after that we were
soon
> on the loch side again.  After lunch we got to the toughest part of entire
way
> clambering up and down rocks alongside the loch.  But almost unnoticed the
> drizzle of the morning had cleared and the weather was fine again.
>
> We arrived at Banglas Farm just north of Inverarnan to a very warm welcome
from
> its proprietors.  This place made a welcome change to Easter Drumquassie.
The
> wigwams were full so it was to be a tent tonight, but not before we had
sampled
> the local fayre at the Drovers Arms just across the road.
>
> Day 4
>
> Benglass really cannot be recommended highly enough, wonderful showers and
a
> well stocked shop.  In the morning they sold hot coffee and bacon and
sausage
> rolls.  The rolls were freshly baked and for 80p a time they were filled
with
> cheese or ham and a packed lunch was made.
>
> The start of the day was the toughest start so far, a steep climb.  For
the
> first half of the day the path follows the railway and the road with the
river
> running in between.  Lunch was had amidst by the river with the mountains
as a
> backdrop.  The sun was shining, it really was idyllic.  I got to thinking
what
> a rare treat, lieing in the warm sun, no wind and not a midge in sight!
And
> yet hardly another soul did we meet.  I was only too soon made aware of
the
> reasons for that.....
>
> We crossed the road and headed into the forest again.  Before long we were
> looking for our next stop, Pinetrees campsite in Tyndrum.
>
> Pinetrees offered us a bunk room and charged only half price for the kids,
so
> that is what we did.  another well stocked shop only this time there was a
> swimming pool.  Can't imagine what Fort Bill ...er William  will have.
>
> Day 5
>
> A well earned lie in and a swim was the order of the fifth morning as we
were
> only going to the Bridge of Orchy.  A very pleasant relaxed day was had.
We
> set off in the afternoon again in warm sunshine and got to the Bridge
almost
> before we realized we had left Tyndrum.  This walk was only a few miles
shorter
> than Day one but we all really felt we could have walked over twice the
> distance easily, were we getting fitter... our second wind perhaps?
>
> An overnight stop in the unofficial site at Bridge of Orchy was had before
our
> trip to Glencoe.
>
> Day 6
>
> So now off to Glencoe we go.  The first half of the day was again idyllic,
lots
> of sunshine as we strode into the moors.
>
> But the weather thought it was pay back time.  The rain started at about
2pm
> and got heavier and heavier until by the time we reached Kingshouse it was
> torrential.  And guess what dad, they have a room spare said the kids
> optimistically.  But the temptation was too great so we stayed in the
hotel.
>
> MMMmmm what a wonderful night.  Huge bath, wonderful meal.
>
> Day 7
>
> The dreaded Devils staircase was on the agenda today.  But the weather was
if
> anything worse when we left the hotel then when we arrived.  A debate was
had
> as to the wisdom of taking the path to its highest point (about 2000 feet)
> with fresh snow down to about 1500 feet.
>
> What the hell, a bit of snow is not going to stop us completing this now.
>
> Up the staircase we went, straight into a blizzard.  Head down we
continued.
> All the way to Kinlochleven.  But it was hard to imagine that just 24
hours
> earlier we had left Bridge of Orchy in warm sunshine.
>
> So to Kinlochleven.  There we found a bunkhouse to stay overnight in.
>
> Day 8
>
> The final day!
>
> Weather forecast was improving, pity the weather wasn't told about that.
>
> Another day of torrential rain with very restrictive views.  By now the
kids
> spirit had been killed off completely.  And this had become an endurance
test
> which was a pity as it was putting the kids off the pleasures of walking.
The
> sunshine we got up to day 5 was completely forgotten as we trundled across
the
> exposed moors.
>
> The wind was extremely strong by now and it seemed that the weather was
making
> one last determined effort to prevent us from finishing.
>
> The sight of the Ben was very welcome even though it looked very in
hospitable.
>  The wind was so strong by now that it was breaking down some of these
> wonderful confiers that make up the Nevis Forest.  Eventually we hit the
road
> and the final mile to that roundabout!  photos were taken but we got there
5
> minutes after the souvenir shop had closed - pity.
>
> All we wanted to do now was get something to eat and go home.  It was
still
> cold and wet and the thought of sitting in the car with the heating on was
> something akin to heaven.
>
> We took the 7pm bus back to Glasgow, we were dropped off a few miles
outside
> Glasgow where we were able to get a taxi to Milngavie.
>
> Would I do this again?
>
> No, not the entire way.  It was fun and interesting but I think future
trips to
> Scotland might be more centred on bagging a few munros.
>
> I would however like to do the last three days again - in better weather.
That
> way the views will be visible.
>
> Kevin who is 14 has challenged me to a 3 peaks race (hang on flamers - I
mean
> the yorkshire one) which we have scheduled for  spring bank.  We have done
the
> walk before.
>
> After that I am taking a complete novice to snowdonia for a weekend, his
idea
> of the countryside is Luton!
>
> Peter G






Subject: Re: Renting Tents?
From: ken cross (ken@bdandm.freeserve.co.uk)

I'm in Yorkshire, if you ever need a tent in this area, please let me know,
you are welcome to borrow one of mine. hope you find what you need, where
you need it

Daniel Tuck <daniel.tuck@net.ntl.com> wrote in message
news:FoCP4.5049$E44.121091@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
> I'm in the South East.
>
> ken cross <ken@bdandm.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:8elpua$3bb$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > Where?
> > Daniel Tuck <daniel.tuck@net.ntl.com> wrote in message
> > news:tsmP4.4589$E44.110215@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
> > > I need to rent a tent or a bivi thing for just one night any idea how
I
> > > could go about doing this?
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance,
> > >
> > > Daniel
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>






Subject: Re: TR - West Highland Way ( a bit long)
From: Yorkie3011 (yorkie3011@aol.com)

In article <WyHP4.5571$E44.131686@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com>, "Daniel Tuck"
<daniel.tuck@net.ntl.com> writes:

>Sounded a really good trip. When I was in Edale last weekend we had a full
>English breakfast for 3.50 - how good is that?

Sounds good but don't think I could make kinder scout carrying any more weight
<g>.  Planning on doing the first bit of the PW (Edale - Hebden Bridge) later
this year if ever we get a dry spell

>Have you done the Coast to Coast? I'm planning on doing it this summer, any
>tips?
>
No, not done this, but would like to give it a go maybe next year.  It'd be
great if you could do a TR on your return

--

Peter Greetham






Subject: Re: Backpack size/waterproofs
From: Alex (alex@clockwork.freeserve.co.uk)

>
> I wear my Rohan waterproof/windproof bags and don't have to worry about
> getting wet or any annoying rusting sounds :o)

As a matter of interest , do they braeth well enohgh to keep your long johns
dry in winter ?  I've got some fleece-lined polyester joggers from M&S,  and
they are totally wind proof,  but the fleece lining gets wet with
perspiration ever time I take them out :-/

Alex C







Subject: US stops intentional degradation of Global Positioning System
From: Chris Holmes (chris@laughing.demon.co.uk)

http://www.whitehouse.gov/library/PressReleases.cgi?date=1&briefing=0
US stops intentional degradation of Global Positioning System
Great news!

-- 
Chris




Subject: Re: Washing Wet Gear
From: Paul McMonagle (paul.mcmonaglespam@dtn.ntl.com)

On Fri, 28 Apr 2000 23:59:06 +0100, Adrian Marsh Tupper
<adrian.tupper@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:

:
:On Ben Chonzie the ironing board would improve the view!

It would certainly give you something to compare the surrounding
landscape to!
-- 
Paul

Looking west past the gasometers to the Kilpatricks.

Remove SPAM to reply.




Subject: Re: US stops intentional degradation of Global Positioning System
From: Daniel Tuck (daniel.tuck@net.ntl.com)

Is that talking about the wobble factor???

Has anyone noticed a difference?

Chris Holmes <chris@laughing.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:cDOuVgAsy1D5EwXz@laughing.demon.co.uk...
> http://www.whitehouse.gov/library/PressReleases.cgi?date=1&briefing=0
> US stops intentional degradation of Global Positioning System
> Great news!
>
> --
> Chris






Subject: Re: Coast to Coast Path
From: Kevin Howell (howell24@howell24.xscreaming.net)

Check out www.coast2coast.co.uk

Mtwhitney62 <mtwhitney62@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000501123417.22717.00001660@ng-cg1.aol.com...
> I live in California and in previous postings I read about people having
> problems finding somewhere to stay on Bank Holiays. When are those
holidays?
> I am starting the hike on May 28th, in which direction should I go to
avoid the
> lack of accommodation problem?
> In a previous posting someone recommended accommodation and guide books; I
can
> not get them before I leave, can I buy them locally?
> Can any one recommend a place to stay at either trail head?
> Any advice at all would be greatly appreciated.
> Thank you  Christa






Subject: Re: TR - West Highland Way ( a bit long)
From: Kevin Howell (howell24@howell24.xscreaming.net)

Well done folks. Off to do the Dingle Way in Southern Ireland in June with 5
pals. Hope to have as much fun as you did. Did Yorkshire 3 peaks last  year,
also Snowdon a few times. Are you taking your friend over
Crib-Goch..........    Keep Walking. See you. Kevin H
Yorkie3011 <yorkie3011@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000502052244.16739.00002924@nso-fo.aol.com...
> This was undertaken by myself - 41 year old bloke (overweight) and my two
> teenage children, Kevin and Melanie.
>
> I figured that the Easter holidays would be a good time what with the kids
off
> school and the midges still safely underground.  No accommodation was
booked
> although we took a tent and employed Travel-Lite to carry all but our day
> packs.  None of us are seasonned walkers and although we had walked before
that
> was last year.
>
> Day One
>
> So after a pastie each from Greigs in Milngavie, car parked safely across
from
> the Police Station  and the photocall at the cairn we were on our way.
Weather
> was bright and sunny and spirits were high.  Travel-lite were dropping our
bags
> off at Easter Drumquassie camp site in Drymen.
>
> We arrived there after a gentle 11 mile walk feeling particularly
knackered and
> wondering if this was such a good idea.  We paid our camp fee 4 per
person and
> was told that we could upgrade to a wigwam if we paid 3 per person more,
I
> declined.
>
> Having seen the wigwams and the oh so comfortable mattresses inside we
quickly
> changed our mind and paid the difference.
>
> The idea was to go into Drymen (20 min walk) for supper, but that seemed
like
> miles now and we settled on bacon sarnies instead!
>
> Day 2
>
> I have to say that this camp site was particularly poor, no hot water!
Excuse
> was that it was the start of the season but apparently that didn't mean we
paid
> less.
>
> Nonetheless we got up and set off for our next destination - Rowardennan
some
> 15 miles along the way.
>
> A quick detour to Drymen for supplies and we were soon in the forest.
> Unfortunately Conic Hill section was closed until 9 May for lambing so we
had
> to detour to the main road and walk along the road to Balmaha.
>
> Now according to my map (Harveys) Balmaha was written in heavy type and
was at
> the foot of Loch Lomond, so I was expecting a place like Bowness on
Windermere,
> what we got was two hotels and 1 shop!  Lunch was had and we continued
along
> the loch sometimes right on its bank sometimes on the road, usually
somewhere
> between the two.
>
> Ross Wood further up was closed so we had to walk along the road when we
got
> our first taste of how the weather up there can change so quickly.  Within
5
> minutes the sun was hidden behind a dirty great black thing, that we soon
> learned continued millions of hailstones!  still it keeps the midges
away.....
>
> Finally got to Rowardennan but after the hailstones the ground was
saturated
> and my plans on camping were not too well received..... and there was a
youth
> hostel.  So thats where we spent night no. 2
>
> Day 3
>
> The day started looking very drizzly and looked like it would be like this
all
> day.  But we did have good waterproofs which were donned before leaving
the
> hostel.
>
> The road  from Balmaha changes into a track here that gets progressively
> smaller and muddier as one continues.  The authorities are rebuilding the
path
> and it was a wonderful relief to get onto the new bit, after that we were
soon
> on the loch side again.  After lunch we got to the toughest part of entire
way
> clambering up and down rocks alongside the loch.  But almost unnoticed the
> drizzle of the morning had cleared and the weather was fine again.
>
> We arrived at Banglas Farm just north of Inverarnan to a very warm welcome
from
> its proprietors.  This place made a welcome change to Easter Drumquassie.
The
> wigwams were full so it was to be a tent tonight, but not before we had
sampled
> the local fayre at the Drovers Arms just across the road.
>
> Day 4
>
> Benglass really cannot be recommended highly enough, wonderful showers and
a
> well stocked shop.  In the morning they sold hot coffee and bacon and
sausage
> rolls.  The rolls were freshly baked and for 80p a time they were filled
with
> cheese or ham and a packed lunch was made.
>
> The start of the day was the toughest start so far, a steep climb.  For
the
> first half of the day the path follows the railway and the road with the
river
> running in between.  Lunch was had amidst by the river with the mountains
as a
> backdrop.  The sun was shining, it really was idyllic.  I got to thinking
what
> a rare treat, lieing in the warm sun, no wind and not a midge in sight!
And
> yet hardly another soul did we meet.  I was only too soon made aware of
the
> reasons for that.....
>
> We crossed the road and headed into the forest again.  Before long we were
> looking for our next stop, Pinetrees campsite in Tyndrum.
>
> Pinetrees offered us a bunk room and charged only half price for the kids,
so
> that is what we did.  another well stocked shop only this time there was a
> swimming pool.  Can't imagine what Fort Bill ...er William  will have.
>
> Day 5
>
> A well earned lie in and a swim was the order of the fifth morning as we
were
> only going to the Bridge of Orchy.  A very pleasant relaxed day was had.
We
> set off in the afternoon again in warm sunshine and got to the Bridge
almost
> before we realized we had left Tyndrum.  This walk was only a few miles
shorter
> than Day one but we all really felt we could have walked over twice the
> distance easily, were we getting fitter... our second wind perhaps?
>
> An overnight stop in the unofficial site at Bridge of Orchy was had before
our
> trip to Glencoe.
>
> Day 6
>
> So now off to Glencoe we go.  The first half of the day was again idyllic,
lots
> of sunshine as we strode into the moors.
>
> But the weather thought it was pay back time.  The rain started at about
2pm
> and got heavier and heavier until by the time we reached Kingshouse it was
> torrential.  And guess what dad, they have a room spare said the kids
> optimistically.  But the temptation was too great so we stayed in the
hotel.
>
> MMMmmm what a wonderful night.  Huge bath, wonderful meal.
>
> Day 7
>
> The dreaded Devils staircase was on the agenda today.  But the weather was
if
> anything worse when we left the hotel then when we arrived.  A debate was
had
> as to the wisdom of taking the path to its highest point (about 2000 feet)
> with fresh snow down to about 1500 feet.
>
> What the hell, a bit of snow is not going to stop us completing this now.
>
> Up the staircase we went, straight into a blizzard.  Head down we
continued.
> All the way to Kinlochleven.  But it was hard to imagine that just 24
hours
> earlier we had left Bridge of Orchy in warm sunshine.
>
> So to Kinlochleven.  There we found a bunkhouse to stay overnight in.
>
> Day 8
>
> The final day!
>
> Weather forecast was improving, pity the weather wasn't told about that.
>
> Another day of torrential rain with very restrictive views.  By now the
kids
> spirit had been killed off completely.  And this had become an endurance
test
> which was a pity as it was putting the kids off the pleasures of walking.
The
> sunshine we got up to day 5 was completely forgotten as we trundled across
the
> exposed moors.
>
> The wind was extremely strong by now and it seemed that the weather was
making
> one last determined effort to prevent us from finishing.
>
> The sight of the Ben was very welcome even though it looked very in
hospitable.
>  The wind was so strong by now that it was breaking down some of these
> wonderful confiers that make up the Nevis Forest.  Eventually we hit the
road
> and the final mile to that roundabout!  photos were taken but we got there
5
> minutes after the souvenir shop had closed - pity.
>
> All we wanted to do now was get something to eat and go home.  It was
still
> cold and wet and the thought of sitting in the car with the heating on was
> something akin to heaven.
>
> We took the 7pm bus back to Glasgow, we were dropped off a few miles
outside
> Glasgow where we were able to get a taxi to Milngavie.
>
> Would I do this again?
>
> No, not the entire way.  It was fun and interesting but I think future
trips to
> Scotland might be more centred on bagging a few munros.
>
> I would however like to do the last three days again - in better weather.
That
> way the views will be visible.
>
> Kevin who is 14 has challenged me to a 3 peaks race (hang on flamers - I
mean
> the yorkshire one) which we have scheduled for  spring bank.  We have done
the
> walk before.
>
> After that I am taking a complete novice to snowdonia for a weekend, his
idea
> of the countryside is Luton!
>
> Peter G






Subject: Re: Backpack size
From: Katherine (walkbritain@home.com)



Peter Clinch wrote:
> 
> The Reids wrote:
> >
> > >  I don't actually wear waterproofs that
> > >> often compared to baselayers,
> 
> > A lot of people are loath to put on waterproof trousers because they
> > have skimped and they ones they have dont fit.
> 
> I used to have some rather good Sprayway Goretex ones, but I lost them
> (when I actually discovered I'd lost them, I worked out I'd last seen
> them 18 months before...).
> 
> I hate them becuase I get too hot in them, and because they rustle every
> time I take a step, because they're more prone to catch on crampons than
> the stretch legwear I much prefer, and because they *rustle* every time
> I take a step, and because they're a pain to put on, even if they have
> full side zips, and because they *RUSTLE* every time I take a step,
> because they don't allow as much freedom of movement as if I'm not
> wearing them, because they *BLOODY RUSTLE* every time I take a step,
> because they make self arrest more problematical by boosting one's speed
> over snow and ice, and finally because the *DAMN THINGS BLOODY RUSTLE*
> every time I take a step.
> 
> Sorry, I just hate them, however well they fit, and until such time as
> they create silent ones that stretch with my leg movements I doubt I'll
> get interested.  I prefer to get wet, and just dry out nice and quickly.
> 
> The ones I have now actually fit quite nicely, but the above problems
> all apply.  Especially the rustling.
> 
> Pete.
> --
> Peter Clinch                    University of Dundee
> Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637   Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
> Fax 44 1382 640177              Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
> net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk     http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/


Do they rustle?

Katherine




Subject: Re: that time of year
From: Katherine (walkbritain@home.com)



Emmanuelle wrote:
> 
> W.D.Grey wrote:
> 
> >When else would Emmanuelle get her tan?
> Bonjour Billy,
> Sacred Blue ! I 'ave just read in another thread that eet is possible
> to tan through the clothes !  Where is the fun in that?
> Au Revoir,
> Emmanuelle
> "If vous cannot be bonne, be bonne at eet"
> Mon visage dans "http://www.fellwalker.mcmail.com/page23.htm"


Sacre Bleu!  What shade is sacred blue?

Katherine




Subject: $6to$6000/Just read to find out how...
From: RJohnHolt (rjohnholt@hotmail.com)



--
-----------------------------------------------------
Click here for two free plane tickets:
http://www.gohip.com/freetickets/







Subject: $6to$6000?Just read to find out how...
From: RJohnHolt (rjohnholt@hotmail.com)



-- From: "Richard"<rjohnholt@hotmail.com
Subject: Turn $6 Into $6000, Just read this and find out how...
Date:Tuesday, May 2, 2000



Turn $6 Into $6000, Just read this and find out how...




Posted by Richard on May 1, 2000

In Reply to: Re: Turn $6 Into $6000, Just read this and find out how...
posted by Dorothy
on March 17,2000 at 03:22:02

Posted by Richard


WANT TO EARN CASH?? NO SCAMS!! NO TRICKS!! (This is exactly how I read
this!/Dorothy's words)
All I have changed is the list of six and some text: Richard

Have you fell for the DON LAPRE/CARLTON SHEETS SCHEMES. You're not the only
one!Although these
programs do have some valuble info, they don't tell you anything that you
can't find at your local library. Just look
up "mail order" or "Money Making Opportunities"! Yeah Don Lapre is rich but
his wealth comes from selling us
his program for $39.99.

I found this on a bulletin board and decided to try it. A little while
back, I was browsing through newsgroups, just
like you are now, and came across an article similar to this that said you
could make thousands of dollars
WITHIN WEEKS with only an initial investment of $6.00! So I thought, "Yeah
right, this must be a scam", but like
most of us, I was curious, so I kept reading. Anyway, it said that you send
$1.00 to each of the 6 names and
address stated in the article. You then place your own name and address in
the bottom of the list at #6, and
post the article in at least 200 newsgroups. (There are thousands) No
catch, that was it. So after thinking it
over, and talking to a few people first, I thought about trying it. I
figured: "what have I got to lose except 6
stamps and $6.00, right?" Then I invested the measly $6.00. Well GUESS
WHAT!?... within 7 days, I started
getting money in the mail! I was shocked! I figured it would end soon, but
the money just kept coming in. In my
first week, I made about $25.00. By the end of the second week I had made a
total of over $1,100.00! In the
third week I had over $8,750.00 and it's still growing. This is now my
fourth week and I have made a total of just
over $17,000.00 and it's still coming in rapidly. It's certainly worth
$6.00, and 6 stamps, I have spent more than
that on the lottery!! Let me tell you how this works and most importantly,
WHY it works... Also, make sure you
print a copy of this article NOW, so you can get the information off of it
as you need it. I promise you that if you
follow the directions exactly, that you will start making more money than
you thought possible by doing
something so easy!

Suggestion: Read this entire message carefully! (print it out or download
it.) Follow the simple directions and
watch the money come in!

If all of the following instructions are adhered to, you will receive
extraordinary dividends.

JUST KEEP READING!!! PLEASE NOTE: Please follow these directions EXACTLY,
and $50,000 or more can
be yours in 20 to 60 days. This program remains successful because of the
honesty and integrity of the
participants. Please continue its success by carefully adhering to the
instructions.

You will now become part of the Mail Order business. In this business your
product is not solid and tangible, it's
a service. You are in the business of developing Mailing Lists. Many large
corporations are happy to pay big
bucks for quality lists. However, the money made from the mailing lists is
secondary to the income which is
made from people like you and me asking to be included in that list.

Here are the 4 easy steps to success:

STEP 1: Get 6 separate pieces of paper and write the following on each
piece of paper "PLEASE PUT ME ON
YOUR MAILING LIST." Now get 6 US $1.00 bills and place ONE inside EACH of
the 6 pieces of paper so the
bill will not be seen through the envelope (to prevent thievery). Next,
place one paper in each of the 6 envelopes
and seal them. You should now have 6 sealed envelopes, each with a piece of
paper stating the above phrase,
your name and address, and a $1.00 bill. What you are doing is creating a
service. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY
LEGAL! You are requesting a legitimate service and you are paying for it!
Like most of us I was a little skeptical
and a little worried about the legal aspects of it all. So I checked it out
with the U.S. Post Office
(1-800-725-2161) and they confirmed that it is indeed legal. Mail the 6
envelopes to the following addresses:




#1) Jason Halwa
Box 11, Site 17, R.R. #2
Grande Prairie, Alberta, Canada.
T8V-2L9

#2) Heather Doll
#6 4328-75 St. N.W.
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
T3B-2M8

#3) Lawrence Tran
3346 Gladys Avenue
Rosemead, CA 91770

#4) James C Heywood
437 N Belmont Place #260
Provo, Utah 84606

#5) Dorothy Agat
60 Mountview Ave. #111
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
M6P-2L4

#6) Richard Holt
10002 Aurura Ave N. #2280
Seattle, Wash.  98133

STEP 2: Now take the #1 name off the list that you see above, move the
other names up (6 becomes 5, 5
becomes 4, etc...) and add YOUR Name as number 6 on the list.

STEP 3: Change anything you need to, but try to keep this article as close
to original as possible. Now, post
your amended article to at least 200 newsgroups. (I think there are close
to 24,000 groups) All you need is 200,
but remember, the more you post, the more money you make! You won't get
very much unless you post like
crazy. :)

This is perfectly legal! If you have any doubts, refer to Title 18 Sec.
1302 & 1341 of the Postal lottery laws.
Keep a copy of these steps for yourself and, whenever you need money, you
can use it again, and again.

PLEASE REMEMBER that this program remains successful because of the honesty
and integrity of the
participants and by their carefully adhering to the directions. Look at it
this way. If you are of integrity, the
program will continue and the money that so many others have received will
come your way.

NOTE: You may want to retain every name and address sent to you, either on
a computer or hard copy and
keep the notes people send you. This VERIFIES that you are truly providing
a service. (Also, it might be a good
idea to wrap the $1 bill in dark paper to reduce the risk of mail theft.)

So, as each post is downloaded and the directions carefully followed, six
members will be reimbursed for their
participation as a List Developer with one dollar each. Your name will move
up the list geometrically so that
when your name reaches the #1 position you will be receiving thousands of
dollars in CASH!!! What an
opportunity for only $6.00 ($1.00 for each of the first six people listed
above) Send it now, add your own name
to the list and you're in business!

---DIRECTIONS ----- FOR HOW TO POST TO NEWSGROUPS------------

Step 1) You do not need to re-type this entire letter to do your own
posting. Simply put your cursor at the
beginning of this letter and drag your cursor to the bottom of this
document, and select 'copy' from the edit
menu. This will copy the entire letter into the computer's memory.

Step 2) Open a blank 'notepad' file and place your cursor at the top of the
blank page. From the 'edit' menu
select 'paste'. This will paste a copy of the letter into notepad so that
you can add your name to the list.

Step 3) Save your new notepad file as a .txt file. If you want to do your
postings in different settings, you'll
always have this file to go back to.

Step 4) Use Netscape or Internet explorer and try searching for various
newsgroups (on-line forums, message
boards, chat sites, discussions.)

Step 5) Visit these message boards and post this article as a new message
by highlighting the text of this letter
and selecting paste from the edit menu. Fill in the Subject, this will be
the header that everyone sees as they
scroll through the list of postings in a particular group, click the post
message button. You're done with your first
one! Congratulations...THAT'S IT! All you have to do is jump to different
newsgroups and post away, after you
get the hang of it, it will take about 30 seconds for each newsgroup!
**REMEMBER, THE MORE
NEWSGROUPS YOU POST IN, THE MORE MONEY YOU WILL MAKE! BUT YOU HAVE TO POST
A
MINIMUM OF 200** That's it! You will begin receiving money from around the
world within days! You may
eventually want to rent a P.O.Box due to the large amount of mail you will
receive. If you wish to stay
anonymous, you can invent a name to use, as long as the postman will
deliver it. **JUST MAKE SURE ALL THE
ADDRESSES ARE CORRECT.**

HERE'S HOW $6.00 DOLLARS TURNS INTO THOUSANDS!! Out of 200 postings, say I
receive only 5 replies
(a very low example). So then I made $5.00 with my name at #6 on the
letter. Now, each of the 5 persons who
just sent me $1.00 make the MINIMUM 200 postings, each with my name at #5
and only 5 persons respond to
each of the original 5, that is another $25.00 for me, now those 25 each
make 200 MINIMUM posts with my
name at #4 and only 5 replies each, I will bring in an additional $125.00!
Now, those 125 persons turn around
and post the MINIMUM 200 with my name at #3 and only receive 5 replies
each, I will make an additional
$625.00! OK, now here is the fun part, each of those 625 persons post a
MINIMUM 200 letters with my name
at #2 and they each only receive 5 replies, that just made me $3,125.00!!!
Those 3,125 persons will all deliver
this message to 200 newsgroups with my name at #1 and if still 5 persons
per 200 newsgroups react I will
receive $15,625,00! With an original investment of only $6.00! AMAZING!
When your name is no longer on the
list, you just take the latest posting in the newsgroups, and send out
another $6.00 to names on the list, putting
your name at number 6 again. And start posting again. The thing to remember
is: do you realize that thousands
of people all over the world are joining the internet and reading these
articles everyday?, JUST LIKE YOU are
now!! So, can you afford $6.00 and see if it really works?? I think so...
People have said, "what if the plan is
played out and no one sends you the money? So what! What are the chances of
that happening when there are
tons of new honest users and new honest people who are joining the internet
and newsgroups everyday and are
willing to give it a try? Estimates are at 20,000 to 50,000 new users,
every day, with thousands of those joining
the actual internet. Remember, play FAIRLY and HONESTLY and this will
really work. GOOD LUCK!!!


-----------------------------------------------------
Click here for two free plane tickets:
http://www.gohip.com/freetickets/







Subject: Re: The Banana Paradox
From: Charles Frederick Wildgoose (wildgoose@zetnet.co.uk)

Roy <r.parrish@btinternet.com> wrote 

> I find it all irritating, even if it is bio-degradable, it's litter. Take
it
> home and put it on the compost heap.
> 
> It amazes me that people can carry sweets, drinks, etc. UP the hill but
seem
> to run out of sufficient strength to carry the empties (bags, cans,
peel),
> DOWN again.

I was involved in a litterpick around Castleton a couple of weeks ago.
During a four hour, 3 mile walk, we picked up 20 black bin bags-worth of
rubbish/litter/call it what you will. The route we followed went up from
Castleton along Dirty Lane to Odin Mine. From there we walked up to the old
road below Mam Tor and (after picking the rubbish up from around the feet
of the hang gliders who were chucking themselves off the hillside) we then
wandered back down the road to the edge of the village.

It was obvious that most of the rubbish had been dropped from cars or in
car parks but there was some rubbish dropped in the middle of nowhere, away
from the cars, though not much. Most of the litter in the countryside was
of an agricultural nature such as fertiliser bags or plastic.

Still, it was a day out :-}

Charlie.




Subject: Re: GPS & selective availability
From: Gordon Harris (gordon@g3snx.demon.co.uk)

In article <5mtsgs8lap4gqvafmmiq18dd3eqcon8289@4ax.com>, The Ferret
<ferret@chateauferret.demon.co.uk> writes
>On Mon, 1 May 2000 21:48:24 +0100, Gordon Harris
><gordon@g3snx.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>At last!  Now I can throw away my Silva, (which isn't as useful as a GPS
>>even before midnight).
>
>       Actually even using GPS of course a compass is still advisable,
>not only because the batteries might run out (!) but also because the
>GPS will only tell you which direction to go in if it knows which way
>you've been moving. I found that with SA in place it would take some
>time to work out what direction it was moving in and would sometimes
>get the speed wildly wrong, but settle down after about 100 yards.
>That's plenty enough time to go over a cliff :-(
>
Absolutely!    I always carry a Silva, and will continue to do so and
practice using it.   I was gently trolling the serious anti-GPS brigade.

With SA removed, it will be unnecessary to keep a GPS switched on all
day, as the familiar "wandering whilst sat having lunch" seems to have
disappeared, so quick fixes can be relied upon.   :)
-- 
Gordon





Subject: Rght to Roam, was:  advice about Cuillin cf Lakes
From: John Dalrymple (jdal@jdal.demon.co.ukabc)

On Tue, 02 May 2000 14:57:51 +0100, "D. Virdee" <dv@quadstone.com>
wrote:
... snip ..
>One thing that occurs to me is 'volume of traffic' - say a land owner
>allows access to his land via a right of way - if it suddenly becomes
>a very popular motorway (like the Pennine Way) - and the land owner
>finds that due to sheer volume of people using the right of way his
>land/livestock is disrupted at detriment to his livlihood - would he
>be morally right to deny access at sensitive times of year?

The Right To Roam legislation will have a facility in it for
landowners to close their land for X days a year (can't remember what
X is, 15 days maybe?). They aren't allowed to do this on Bank Holidays
or Weekends. So he may be legally right to deny access at sensitive
times of the year. None of this affects rights of way, though.

BTW, the mapping exercise (which will define what land the right to
roam will apply to) is about to be divvied out to the various
surveying contractors. As things stand these contracters are open to
lobbying and consultation, but once the land is defined we punters
can't appeal, but the landowners can. So I'd advise interested
organisations to make themselves aware of when this is happening in
their area and register their interest.

JDal
Remove abc to mail me




Subject: Re: The 'Peaks'
From: chris gilbert (chris.gilbert@postoffice.co.uk)


Graham Steel wrote

>I have been disappointed that there is more in the way of muddy fields
>than peaks in the Peak District

The Peaks are more of a dome shape with an extensive high central
area cut through with valleys than your more farmiliar mountain areas
like the lakes. This means that, in the white peak especially, you're never
too far away from some form of farming, even if it's only pasture. Even
so you're also usually never too far away from a vantage point that offers
great views into the valleys either (I know, I've painted most of them :-) )
and most of the muddy fields, the crowds and the honey pots can be
easily avoided.

My one and only very minor gripe about this area of otherwise
unchallangable beauty that I'm so priviledged to live in is that the large
numbers of residant livestock mean that in summer the flies can make
the walking a bit unpleasant. This means that we walk less in the area
between June and September. Thankfully we're often off walking abroad
during those times anyway.

Chris







Subject: Re: The Banana Paradox
From: chris gilbert (chris.gilbert@postoffice.co.uk)

Another old adage; If you pack it in then make sure you pack it out again.

I agree with the sentiment expressed on here that, biodegradable or not,
you should take all of your waste away with you. Having rubbish in your
pack seems to really bug some people. These days we take our snap in
plastic sandwich boxes and pack all of the banana skins and apple cores
into them when finished. OK, it's a tiny weeny bit bulkier than a snappie
but this hardly matters on day trips.

Also, beware moving flat rocks at the summits of hills. They invariably
hide a pile of old poo and spent toilet tissue :-(

Chris






Subject: Re: Garmin Etrex GPS any opinions??
From: Dominic Sexton ({d}@dscs.demon.co.uk)

In article <FBJP4.5740$E44.136400@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com>,
Richard Martin <richard.martin@net.ntl.com> writes
>How basic is the etrex?

When released there were some important features missing (although most
users probably wouldn't need those features) but the software has since
been upgraded and it now has more capabilities. If you get the PC cable
you can download the upgrade from Garmin's website and upgrade the
software yourself.

>  Can it be connected to a PC?

Yes, but the cable costs extra.

-- 

Dominic Sexton
http://www.dscs.demon.co.uk/




Subject: Re: Garmin Etrex GPS any opinions??
From: Dominic Sexton ({d}@dscs.demon.co.uk)

In article <8enfud$gno$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net>, Marky
<mark@fannybatter.com> writes
>Thanks for that information, shame we pay the same in GBP as Americans pay
>in dollars.
>
>There is a new model out soon,The Etrex Summit, with electronic
>compass,barometric altimeter, costs about double.
>http://www.tvnav.com/etrexsummit.html
>
>Not sure what to do, buy now for 120 or wait and pay 240 for the next
>model, but 240 brings many more GPS receivers into the equation.
>
>Thanks,

Now that SA is off, and set to remain so, the compass function (not
magnetic) in a normal receiver works far better than it used to but you
will still need to be moving a little to make sure it is pointing in the
right direction. Also the altitude should now be within ~25m when there
is a good view of the sky and it does not require periodic re-
calibration during the day like a barometric altimeter.

For me the recent demise of SA has made the extra feature of the eTrex
Summit redundant...

Regarding prices: chandlers / boating suppliers tend to do the best
prices in the UK. The following three seem to have keen prices at the
moment (I have not used any of these).

http://www.mesltd.co.uk/
http://www.yachtpeople.com/
http://www.mailspeedmarine.com/

For people who are in London there are some good shops on Tottenham
Court Road who carry a large range and will generally match or beat a
price you quote.

-- 

Dominic Sexton
http://www.dscs.demon.co.uk/




Subject: Re: The Banana Paradox
From: Pierre Lavaurs (lavaurs@jonas.univ-lyon1.fr)

In article <01bfb4cc$1f171e00$fa28f7c2@windows95>, "Charles Frederick
Wildgoose" <wildgoose@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:

> Roy <r.parrish@btinternet.com> wrote 
> 

> 
> It was obvious that most of the rubbish had been dropped from cars or in
> car parks but there was some rubbish dropped in the middle of nowhere, away
> from the cars, though not much. Most of the litter in the countryside was
> of an agricultural nature such as fertiliser bags or plastic.
> 
> Still, it was a day out :-}
> 


I made a similar discovery last month of July when I got lost on Bleaklow.
As I understood later, I had taken a course slightly north of the path to
Crowden. So I went down along more or less random gullies... and
everywhere I was conforted in my choice by small items of waste : butts of
cigarettes, wrapping of chocolate bars...

When I randomly changed several times the gully I followed and always
found these items, I concluded that everybody got lost there and that this
rubbish could not be considered as waymarking.




Subject: Re: Backpack size/waterproofs
From: Peter Clinch (p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk)

Paul Rose wrote:

> I wear my Rohan waterproof/windproof bags and don't have to worry about
> getting wet or any annoying rusting sounds :o)

For me they utterly fail on the freedom of movement category.  I wear
normal Bags day to day at work and for travel, so am very familiar with
the cut and shape, and I'm very happy with it, but they're not in the
same ballpark as tracksters for freedom of movement so I don't wear them
up hills, and I can't see the waterproof ones being any better in that
respect.

In winter I go for Rohan Super Salopettes.  IMHO easily the best piece
of kit they ever made (full bib version of the Superstriders with full
length legs), but the wallies stopped building them.

Pete.
-- 
Peter Clinch			University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637	Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177		Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk	http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/




Subject: Re: that time of year
From: The Reids (gillardreid@mcmail.com)

Katherine wrote:

>Sacre Bleu!  What shade is sacred blue?
>
>Katherine
In Emmanuelles case, very blue, especially in this weather !
Mike Reid
Looking north-west towards the Ben & the Houses of Parliament,
Hill shareware, quiz, books at "http://www.fellwalker.mcmail.com"




Subject: Re: Rght to Roam, was:  advice about Cuillin cf Lakes
From: John Dalrymple (jdal@jdal.demon.co.ukabc)

On Wed, 03 May 2000 09:39:42 +0100, "D. Virdee" <dv@quadstone.com>
wrote:

>Thanks for that, John.
>
>Another question for you - since you're well informed of 
>this act:
>With a right to roam in force,
>can a landowner still lob you off if you are damaging his land by
>say banging bolts into a cliff or climbing over a dyke and damaging
>it?
All you are allowed to do under the act is participate activities "on
foot" without using equipment. So the missionary position is out, but
up against the fence, unprotected, is fine.  Doing it in tents is out,
but doing it at night (standing up, of course) is ok.

By a narrow margin, climbing is allowed. Those people who slag off the
BMC had better realise how close it came to excluding climbing of any
kind from the act.

I'm not an expert (one of our club members is on the 3 person BMC
committee who are negotiating with the Parliamentary Committee
responsible for the details of the act, and he keeps us informed), but
the gist of it is that you will have additional rights granted under
the act. Other rights are unaffected, both yours and the landowners.
So you can't bolt in Northumberland, and you can't have it away with
the sheep without the owners permission.
>
>Dave '20 questions' Virdee

You've been charged 2.

hth

JDal

Remove abc to mail me




Subject: Re: Rght to Roam, was:  advice about Cuillin cf Lakes
From: D. Virdee (dv@quadstone.com)

Michael Farthing wrote:

> Yes, but only till midnight.
> 
> At 12.01 am he has to come out again, catch you at it, and throw you off
> until the next midnight.
> 
> [You think I'm joking, don't you...]
> 

Sounds a bit arse to me, and far to open to abuse - particually
at the small end of the scale - small holdings and
crofts, for instance.

Yes - I'm all for walkers climbers having access to the land
(as we have on a notional, traditional basis in scotland) - I
fall into that category as a recreational user -
But no - I don't think the right to access should reside with the
recreational user. 

For example, If a landowner says 'You can't come on to my land today,
I'm entertaining the toffs at grouse shooting' - although
I might not agree with the fact they're shooting grouse, I should
realise that there are many estate workers that depend on this income.
I can't go where I want? Tough shit. I should go somewhere else or come
back when they're finished playing.




Subject: Re: Rght to Roam, was:  advice about Cuillin cf Lakes
From: Steve Orrell (steve@gpsinternetcapitals.com)

John Dalrymple recently said...


>The Right To Roam legislation will have a facility in it for
>landowners to close their land for X days a year (can't remember what
>X is, 15 days maybe?).

Sounds feasible. Is this not likely to mirror the current legislation 
with regard to Rights Of Way whereby an established, uninterrupted, 
pattern of usage can be a means by which a ROW can be declared? 
Denying access for X number of days a year and putting up signs that 
say "private Land" or "No Right of Way" is an existing means of 
legally preventing the designation of a right Of Way.

Dunno what X is tho?

F&SE 



-- 
Steve...

NMC web pages http://www.gpsinternet.com/NMC
NMC Useful Links http//www.gpsinternet.com/NMC/useful_links.html

*** Return e-mail address junked, remove capitals to activate




Subject: Re: Rght to Roam, was:  advice about Cuillin cf Lakes
From: John Dalrymple (jdal@jdal.demon.co.ukabc)

On Wed, 03 May 2000 12:17:11 +0100, "D. Virdee" <dv@quadstone.com>
wrote:

>Michael Farthing wrote:
>
>> Yes, but only till midnight.
>> 
>> At 12.01 am he has to come out again, catch you at it, and throw you off
>> until the next midnight.
>> 
>> [You think I'm joking, don't you...]
>> 
>
>Sounds a bit arse to me, and far to open to abuse - particually
>at the small end of the scale - small holdings and
>crofts, for instance.
The current system is open to abuse. In Michaels example, the
landowner can throw you off and you can come back. If you persist he
can get a court order to keep you off. If you still go back you are
breaking a court order and will end up with criminal proceedings
against you. In the RTR system you can't get thrown off if all you are
doing is walking, climbing, running etc. If you are cycling, causing
damage or flying a kite then the same laws apply as before.

>Yes - I'm all for walkers climbers having access to the land
>(as we have on a notional, traditional basis in scotland) - I
>fall into that category as a recreational user -
>But no - I don't think the right to access should reside with the
>recreational user. 
The process of arbitration between the landowners and the recreational
users is just about over and the result is that, with some caveats,
the right to access is with the recreational user.

>For example, If a landowner says 'You can't come on to my land today,
>I'm entertaining the toffs at grouse shooting' - although
>I might not agree with the fact they're shooting grouse, I should
>realise that there are many estate workers that depend on this income.

1. Are more people employed in an area as a result of grouseshooting
than by hillwalking, skiing, mountain biking and climbing? I don't
think so. AFAIK not much income goes into the families of these areas
as a result of shooting when compared to outdoor activities (shops,
B&B, outdoor activity centres, guiding, pubs etc). I'm not counting
Lord Snooty and his kin as a family.

2. And anyway, this is one of the reasons why the landowner can close
the land for some days a year. There are also rights of appeal granted
to the landowners only.

JDal
Remove abc to mail me




Subject: Re: I need Help  3645 (Spammer)
From: Red (i-am@i.am.not.fond.of.fatty.canned.meat)

Yes, your SPAM works, as i guess you knew.






Subject: Re: Renting Tents?
From: van winden (windennospam@kabelfoon.nl)

You mean the Jetpacker?

onno

<zeus@cix.compulink.co.uk> schreef in bericht
news:8eolpu$kmq$1@plutonium.compulink.co.uk...
>
> >I'm in the South East.
> If you are near Essex I have a one man Saunders sloping ridge tent you can
> borrow
>
> Mark







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Subject: Re: Lost Souls
From: The Reids (gillardreid@mcmail.com)

Ade Waight wrote:

>Anybody else got any stories of finding lost souls, and what where the
>circumstances?
>
Wasdale MRT could no doubt tell many stories of three peakers
descending into Wasdale in error. The Esk Hause and Styhead tarn areas
also giving opportunites for the unwary to go astray in mist, my
personal experiences have having to redirect walkers away from Hollow
Stones back towards the Corridor route. I suspect some do not realise
that Scafell Pike can be climbed from Langdale, Borrowdale, Eskdale
and Wasdale and just follow others down !  

The other side of the coin occured when we planned a horseshoe walk to
end at the Scafell Hotel once, for a taxi or bus back to Keswick, the
regulars just would not believe that we planned to end far from our
starting point and by headtorch !

Mike Reid
My Wasdale pages start at:-
"http://users.outdoor-pursuits.com/fellwalker/page01.htm"




Subject: Re: Snowdonia - Book Recommendation
From: The Reids (gillardreid@mcmail.com)

Bryan Hall wrote:

>I'd prefer the more factual type of offering without the teashop style with
>flowery language, bardic poetry or the anything with the phrase "...car
>...." in the title.
The "Ridges of Snowdonia" Ashton 
He doesnt go bardic but does lapse into a fantasy passage at one
point. Not being anti car I cannot remember if they are mentioned or
not but certainly there are no car tours ! The closest he comes on
chapter headings is CARneddau :-)
Regards
Mike Reid
Walking books at "http://www.fellwalker.mcmail.com/page63.htm"




Subject: Re: A good Munro book for starters?
From: The Reids (gillardreid@mcmail.com)

adshead@my-deja.com wrote:

>Who knows of a good Munro book for initial planning
>of trips with?
There are three main contenders
Butterfield's High Mountains (inc England+Wales)  
21x25cm 320p colour
The 3000ft. mountains (including tops) of British Isles. Also
available in  pocket size version.The 3000ft. limit obviously excludes
most of the   English Lake District but Ireland is a bonus. Usefully
describes the general  characteristics of each area at beginning of
each chapter. Often gives   more than one route to the hills. Access
information and many good  photographs. If your only interest is the
Munros, tops and 'furths' this  could be your sole guide book.The
"volume 1" in the title of recent copies
relates to an abandoned plan to cover the lower hills in a second
volume.

McNeish the Munros
228p 20x27cm colour
Alternative guide to the Munros. Has the advantage that routes are
shown  on the sketch maps for ease of comprehension. Attractive sketch
maps  and photographs.

"The Munros" & "The Corbetts" (and area guides & "Munros tables") SMC,

av 200p 15x24cm colour 
Authoritative guide books covering Scottish Highlands. Photo and
description of each hill with discussion of routes. Sketch maps show
ridges but not routes. Also series of area guides which overlap with
these   two publications.
New edition just out

The SMC is newly published but my vote still goes for Butterfield, if
anybody is thinking of doing another survey this could be a good
question (which one best) 

also consider getting:-
Heading for the Scottish hills SMT 176p.15x21cm bw
Essential factual infomation (estate telephone numbers etc.) on 
access during shooting seasons for highland hillgoers.

Regards
Mike Reid
Walking books at "http://www.fellwalker.mcmail.com/page63.htm"




Subject: Conditions on CMD Arete
From: Robert (rabwishaw@lineone.net)

It is almost time for my holiday to Fort William, (next week in fact :o))
Can anyone tell me how the conditions are on the CMD Arete? Are ice axes &
crampons required on any section of this route, including the final climb up
Ben Nevis? Thanks to all in advance.

--
Regards,
Rab.

Visit my web site http://website.lineone.net/~rabwishaw






Subject: Re: Vango Venom and other l/w bags
From: Jon Doran (jon@nozzer.demon.co.uk)

In article <8citpn$li0$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,
Rob <rob@alpinist.co.uk> waffled rather dreamily that:

>My plan is to get a bag of this type and a Rab Topbag to use (with
>Therma Rest) pretty much year round (I do sleep scarily warm) as a
>light weight and more importantly afordabl solution (2 bags for the
>price of 1 etc!)  Again, any thoughts!

The Top Bag's a neat thing but bear in mind that it doesn't have any sort
of hood arrangement, so if it does get really cold, that's likely to be
wear you notice it. It also has a tendency to expose your butt/back to the
elements, which isn't a problem in summer, but even with another bag used
in conjunction with it, could be less pleasant when it's really cool.

Jon






Subject: Re: Eagle  Crag
From: Martin Smith (msm@paradigm-uk.com)

I found it rather formidable looking as well, but it proved quite enjoyable.
I don't recall any particularly loose footing, but near the top I don't know
if I followed the intended route as there seemed to be a multitude of paths
between the various rocky ledges.

One feature of the day was almost getting caught in a sheep round-up. Is
round-up the correct word? The shepherds and dogs appeared loudly over High
White Stones and all the sheep near Eagle Crag got up and started heading
where they obviously knew they were supposed to go. Until that is they
spotted me quietly eating my lunch. This appeared to confuse them (?) and
some headed off towards the wrong side of the ridge. The shepherds stopped
and changed their volume from loud to extremely very loud. I have no idea if
they were advising the sheep or me as to intended route, but I decided lunch
was over and moved on in what I hoped was the non round-up direction. Yes,
you've guessed it, I had chosen the route the sheep were being driven
because those first few sheep to move had obviously been attempting to
scarper and hide.

Following a path I am not familiar with always involves a good deal of
stopping and looking around just to see what's new. Being pursued by a whole
hillside of woolly fellows who know the way and offer considerable baa'ing
advice does add a certain something to proceedings.
--
Martin Smith
Gazing out over the car park at work, thankfully no sheep in sight.

Michael Farrell <Mike.Farrell@upthedale.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8eptgm$b88$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Can  anyone  advise me  about  how  difficult  (ie  needs  hands, loose
> footing etc)  the  direct  ascent  of  Eagle  Crag from  Stonethwaite  is
> (route  A  in  Wainwright). It  looks  rather  formidable  from  below.
>
>






Subject: Bivvy Bags vs. 1 man tent.
From: Stuart Blackwell (stuart@studiodm.co.uk)

Hello All,

I'm looking for a lightweight option for an overnight shelter in mild
conditions.  Whilst I appreciate the obvious advantages of a one man tent
like the Terra Nova Solar One, I am quite taken by the idea of a 'bivvy
bag', it being both compact and lightweight.  Ignoring the orange bin bag
used in emergencies I'm considering a Goretext clad bag (a simple cover for
a sleeping bag) or perhaps the more sophisticated model which looks like a
long narrow tent with a single hoop at the head end.

Does anyone have any experiences of these (like falling over one in the dark
and impaling the occupant with your pole) and can you suggest a decent
supplier?

Cheers,


Stuart Blackwell






Subject: Re: Backpack size
From: Peter Clinch (p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk)

Trevor Dennis wrote:
> 
> Pam Scruton writes
> 
> >Many inexperienced people understand the need for waterproofs but don't
> >believe that a 15 pound fashion fleece from the local cut-price shop won't
> >be as good as my Berghaus Windstopper.  Then on the hill they find that the
> >slightest breeze goes right through them and even though the sun is shining
> >they are feeling cold.
> 
> But there are bargains to be had.  Some of my
> favourite mid-layer garments came from Tescos.

And they probvably weigh less than said Berghaus Windstopper, and almost
certainly dry out quicker.

Pete.
-- 
Peter Clinch			University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637	Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177		Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk	http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/




Subject: Re: Lost Souls
From: rob (rnaylor@ensoco.uk.com)


The Reids wrote in message <39112190.1305091@news.mcmail.com>...
my
>personal experiences have having to redirect walkers away from Hollow
>Stones back towards the Corridor route.

Mine, too. On one trip with my (then) 9 year old daughter 2 years ago she
kept asking why I was using the compass so much on our descent into Hollow
Stones in thick clag.  Several parties went charging down past us, but the
fist bit of fun was meeting a group ascending using only a small map in a
walks guide.  At that point we were just above the junction of the Corridor
route and Hollow Stones paths, and the leader simply wouldn't believe that
they were there, since they'd started from Eskdale and she was adamant that
they couldn't possibly have traversed halfway round the mountain without
knowing it.  Even after another 2 parties had confirmed the position she was
still skeptical!

Leaving her to her delusions we descended into Hollow Stones, eventually
coming across 3 of the parties which had rushed past us, with their members
milling about and mumbling about the Corridor Route.  I was able to put them
back on the path and give them and approximate distance to the turnoff.  My
daughter then piped up "NOW I see why you were looking at thecompass so
much, Daddy"..... a lesson she's taken to heart since she's now a real
fanatic about micro-navigating whenever we're out!

Rob






Subject: Re: Snowdonia - Book Recommendation
From: adshead@my-deja.com (adshead@my-deja.com)

The Mountains of England and Wales Vol 1: Wales
John Nuttall, Anne Nuttall

Cicerone Press; ISBN: 1852843047

I've used this a lot and it certainly passes the "forward planning from
the sofa" test with enough information to fire the imagination whilst
also brief enough for use on the hill, if necesary. Chapters on all the
major groups of peaks over 2000ft with walks of between 5mi and 12mi.


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.




Subject: Re: Snowdonia - Book Recommendation
From: adshead@my-deja.com (adshead@my-deja.com)

The Mountains of England and Wales Vol 1: Wales
John Nuttall, Anne Nuttall

Cicerone Press; ISBN: 1852843047

I've used this a lot and it certainly passes the "forward planning from
the sofa" test with enough information to fire the imagination whilst
also brief enough for use on the hill, if necesary. Chapters on all the
major groups of peaks over 2000ft with walks of between 5mi and 12mi.


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.




Subject: Re: Bivvy Bags vs. 1 man tent.
From: Peter Clinch (p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk)

Stuart Blackwell wrote:

> I'm looking for a lightweight option for an overnight shelter in mild
> conditions.  Whilst I appreciate the obvious advantages of a one man tent
> like the Terra Nova Solar One, I am quite taken by the idea of a 'bivvy
> bag', it being both compact and lightweight.

A goretex bivvi is surprisingly bulky: mine takes up half the size of my
*2* man tent, but that is still a weight and bulk advantage for a solo
camper.

I'm quite happy to use it in lieu of a tent if the weather will be
nice.  However, "nice" generally has to involve a breeze, or you can't
escape the midges so easily.  You can zip in for the sleep portion, but
sitting around for your evening meal in a cloud of beasties isn't any
fun, nor is being zipped into a goretex bag with no extra space to speak
of if you're awake...

In summary, best option is to have both, and take the appropriate one. 
A choice of one or the other depends on what you're doing, where you're
going: I can think of compelling reasons for both approaches.

Pete.
-- 
Peter Clinch			University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637	Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177		Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk	http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/




Subject: Re: Lost Souls
From: Jenny Brett (jennyb@madasafish.com)

Ade Waight wrote:
> 
Snippetry

> Anybody else got any stories of finding lost souls, and what where the
> circumstances?

About four years ago, the kids (7 year old Catherine and 9 year old
Steven) and I went to Scotland for a couple of weeks camping and
climbing. It was August and the weather was quite reasonable.

We all wanted to climb Ben Nevis, but were not keen on traipsing up the
tourist path with the rest of the great unwashed, so we went part of the
way up on the path, then round the corner and up the side of the
mountain next door, to toddle across a ridge, then up to the summit of
Ben Nevis. 

It was a good plan and all went well - except that my watch, an old
fashioned mechanical type, chose that day to feel unwell and run v e r y
s l o w l y.

There was also cloud on the top, so when we arrived and I consulted my
watch, there were no other clues for me to glean the truth from.

We started back down on the tourist path and after 15-20 mins walking
came out of the cloud. Now I could see that the sun was almost
completely set and I knew it would take us another couple of hours to
get off the hill. I looked at the cursed watch which merrily told me
that but a couple of minutes had passed since I last glanced at it. 

Fortunately, it was quite warm, dry and even when it got properly dark
the path was easy to make out because it was so light in colour. This
was also the time of year for the meteor shower known as The Perseids,
so we were treated to a nice show as well.

We were doing fine, although we were tired, but just below a little
lochan we came across a couple (boyfriend and girlfriend) who weren't.

They were Dutch and had decided to camp by the lochan for the night
rather than in the (rather crowded and noisy) Glen Nevis camp site. The
boyfriend had spent all day walking up and down the hill to take their
gear up and now both were making their final trip up when the boyfriend
had all but collapsed with exhaustion.

They had their sleeping bags, food, water and stove with them and they
were trying to get the stove working to cook the poor chap a bite to
eat. Trouble was, they'd only bought the stove that day and hadn't read
the instructions properly, if at all. It was a Camping Gaz stove of the
sort that punches a hole in the canister. Because they hadn't put the
stove together properly, the gas was leaking out of the canister and the
stove didn't work. Luckily, they had another canister with them, so
after I'd read the instructions to put the stove together we were able
to cook some instant noodles for the chap and he was soon feeling
better.

They decided to stay where they were for the night, (it was sheltered
and they were comfortable) while we had to press on. They encouraged us
to stay with them as it was now fully dark and probably about 11.30, but
we'd left the dog on his own back at the camp site, so we parted, they
reassuring us they'd be OK, us reassuring them we'd make it.

We got back to our tent at 2.00 am (by the clock in the car).

I learnt several things from the experience:
Not to overestimate our own abilities (the whole walk was really more
than we should have taken on).
Always make sure you know new equipment well before you need to use it.
Know your watch is reliable!
And at that age, my kids thought I was infallible - the whole thing was
a great adventure to them.

Working out who were the Lost Souls in the above I leave as an exercise
for the reader!

Jenny





Subject: NEW VIRUS ALERT
From: stevew885 (stevew885@netscapeonline.co.uk)

F U GET A AN EMAIL THE ONLY CONTAINS THE WORDS "I LOVE YOU" IN CAPITAL
LETTERS, DO NOT OPEN IT ON ANY ACCOUNT.

THIS IS A NEW VIRUS, DELETE IT STRAIGHT AWAY !!!!

I WAS TOLD ABOUT THIS MY MY PARTNER WHO WORKS IN THE INDUSTRY, AND SHE
HAS HAD IT CONFIRMED BY OTHER LARGE COMPANIES.

GET AN UPDATE FOR YOUR ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE AS IT IS A BRAND NEW VIRUS.

STEVE WEBB





Subject: Re: NEW VIRUS ALERT
From: Ben M (benmerri@rockdb.demon.co.uk)

yep, its just done the rounds in our place. When you open the attachment it
forwards a copy of the original mail to 'All Users' in your address book.

Quite amusing at first but brought our mail server down pretty quickly. Just
make sure you don't open the attachment...

-Ben

stevew885 wrote in message <39115962.1C4FECCD@netscapeonline.co.uk>...
>F U GET A AN EMAIL THE ONLY CONTAINS THE WORDS "I LOVE YOU" IN CAPITAL
>LETTERS, DO NOT OPEN IT ON ANY ACCOUNT.
>
>THIS IS A NEW VIRUS, DELETE IT STRAIGHT AWAY !!!!
>
>I WAS TOLD ABOUT THIS MY MY PARTNER WHO WORKS IN THE INDUSTRY, AND SHE
>HAS HAD IT CONFIRMED BY OTHER LARGE COMPANIES.
>
>GET AN UPDATE FOR YOUR ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE AS IT IS A BRAND NEW VIRUS.
>
>STEVE WEBB
>






Subject: Re: Backpack size/waterproofs
From: Rob Devereux (rde@wpo.nerc.ac.uk)

My personal view is that Ron Hills sit a bit close to the skin and I dont
like the idea.  my best suggestion would be trousers with some water
resistance like the rohans, or for a cheaper alternative I bought some
millets Peter Storm walking trousers which were water repellant and except
for a total downpour they do fine and dry quickly.

"Paul Rose" <paul@rose159.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8ept07$aq5$2@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> Peter Clinch <p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk> wrote in message
> news:390FDF41.7FD2EFB2@dundee.ac.uk...
> > Paul Rose wrote:
> >
> > > I wear my Rohan waterproof/windproof bags and don't have to worry
about
> > > getting wet or any annoying rusting sounds :o)
> >
> > For me they utterly fail on the freedom of movement category.  I wear
> > normal Bags day to day at work and for travel, so am very familiar with
> > the cut and shape, and I'm very happy with it, but they're not in the
> > same ballpark as tracksters for freedom of movement so I don't wear them
> > up hills, and I can't see the waterproof ones being any better in that
> > respect.
> >
> > In winter I go for Rohan Super Salopettes.  IMHO easily the best piece
> > of kit they ever made (full bib version of the Superstriders with full
> > length legs), but the wallies stopped building them.
> >
> > Pete.
>
> Hi Pete
>
> I understand what you're saying but I haven't really had a problem with
> them. I find them comfortable although I have just bought myself a pair of
> Ron Hills for the warmer days and I must admit they do allow lots of
freedom
> and are very light but I still like the bags especially on a cold, windy
and
> wet day. No stopping to pull out the waterproofs which are always stuffed
> right at the bottom of the bag :o)
>
> --
> All the best, Paul R
> in Middlesbrough, England, UK.
>
> Researching ROSE in Cleveland, Durham and Suffolk.
>
>
>






Subject: Re: NEW VIRUS ALERT
From: Adrian J Pullin (pullinaj@newi.ac.uk)

Also reported from De Montford Uni.  It took out their entire e-mail system.
They report that it operates on Outlook, but it may affect othere systems as
well.

It is NOT a standard hoax e-mail type virus...   This one is real.

Oh, joy!

Ben M wrote:

> yep, its just done the rounds in our place. When you open the attachment it
> forwards a copy of the original mail to 'All Users' in your address book.
>
> Quite amusing at first but brought our mail server down pretty quickly. Just
> make sure you don't open the attachment...
>
> -Ben
>
> stevew885 wrote in message <39115962.1C4FECCD@netscapeonline.co.uk>...
> >F U GET A AN EMAIL THE ONLY CONTAINS THE WORDS "I LOVE YOU" IN CAPITAL
> >LETTERS, DO NOT OPEN IT ON ANY ACCOUNT.
> >
> >THIS IS A NEW VIRUS, DELETE IT STRAIGHT AWAY !!!!
> >
> >I WAS TOLD ABOUT THIS MY MY PARTNER WHO WORKS IN THE INDUSTRY, AND SHE
> >HAS HAD IT CONFIRMED BY OTHER LARGE COMPANIES.
> >
> >GET AN UPDATE FOR YOUR ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE AS IT IS A BRAND NEW VIRUS.
> >
> >STEVE WEBB
> >

--
Adrian J Pullin
Peninsula Canoe Club






Subject: Re: NEW VIRUS ALERT
From: Ian Grimsey (i.m.grimsey@remove.brad.ac.uk)

In article <39115F7D.33DBC69F@newi.ac.uk>, Adrian J Pullin <pullinaj@newi.ac.uk> wrote:
>Also reported from De Montford Uni.  It took out their entire e-mail system.
>They report that it operates on Outlook, but it may affect othere systems as
>well.
>
>It is NOT a standard hoax e-mail type virus...   This one is real.
>

Now confirmed as real from Bradford computer services as well.....

"We have received email from a variety of sources alleging the existence
of a data destroying trojan/virus attached to a message with the title
'I Love You' or within the body of the said message. The AV Software
producer Network Associates is working on a fix (according to their
technical support) but have not as yet released any information
regarding the pathology and payload of this worm.  The AV producer
F-Secure, however, have released some details at
http://www.europe.datafellows.com/v-descs/love.htm which outlines the
structure and pathology of the VBScript Worm.

This worm is most threatening to Microsoft Outlook users and users of
mIRC.  The worm can send itself via IRC whenever a user attaches to an
IRC Channel, and then sends itself to anyone in your Outlook address
book.  Despite the fact that we are not a major Outlook site and IRC is
banned for use on campus,  it is important to remain vigilant.  Do not
open any message with this title, even if you think you know who the
sender is and trust that sender."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dr I.M. Grimsey	   School of Pharmacy, University of Bradford
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 "The bus came by and I got on, that's when it all began"




Subject: Re: Lost Souls
From: Pedt Scragg (pedt@signpost-design.co.uk)

Ade Waight <ade.waightnospam@ffei.co.uk> said
>
>Anybody else got any stories of finding lost souls, and what where the
>circumstances?
>
Years ago, I was at Pen-y-Pass about to take a group up Glyder Fawr.
Explained to them we'd be back two days later for Snowdon and explained
about PYG, Miners etc. Thick clag.

As we set off up GF, family of four followed us. When we stopped, they
stopped. Asked them if they knew where they were going and was assured
with waved map that they did and Glyder Fawr was were they were going
first.

Got to top of GF and the mist did one of those wonderful sinkings and
tops just started to appear. Father of family started peering round &
came across to ask "how do I get to the cafe and railway line". Wasn't
best pleased to have it pointed out "it's over there on that peak". I
should have perhaps questioned them closer but, being assured that they
did want to go up Glyder Fawr, thought no more about it.

Turned out he'd heard me talking about Snowdon and assumed we were going
up there.

-- 
Pedt Scragg     http://signpost-design.co.uk/   ODP Editor: http://dmoz.org/
Signpost Web Design, Wrecsam, North Wales




Subject: Re: NEW VIRUS ALERT
From: Jack Howard (jack.howard@[127.0.0.1])

[fu to uk.railway only]

<spamtrapped - domain is stormshadow dot co dot uk>

In article <8erno4$7pv$1@squire.cen.brad.ac.uk>, Ian Grimsey <i.m.grimse
y@REMOVE.brad.ac.uk> writes

>This worm is most threatening to Microsoft Outlook users and users of
>mIRC.  The worm can send itself via IRC whenever a user attaches to an
>IRC Channel, and then sends itself to anyone in your Outlook address
>book.  Despite the fact that we are not a major Outlook site and IRC is
>banned for use on campus,  it is important to remain vigilant.  Do not
>open any message with this title, even if you think you know who the
>sender is and trust that sender."

Yup, this one _is_ real.  Btw, the subject of all the ones I've seen has
been "ILOVEYOU" (yes, all run together and in capitals).

Needless to say, Turnpike users can just delete the thing, no harm done.
If you run Outlook[express], make sure it's set _not_ to auto-open
attachments.  The attachment to this one is called 

<something I've forgotten>.TXT.vbx

Note the attempt to hide the vbx file as a TXT one.
-- 
 - Jack Howard, speaking for himself.

Midnight's Darksite: http://www.enchantress.org.uk
Leeds 2000 - Death of The Duchess - End of an era.




Subject: Re: Backpack size/waterproofs
From: The Reids (gillardreid@mcmail.com)

Rob Devereux wrote:

>My personal view is that Ron Hills sit a bit close to the skin and I dont
>like the idea.
Ah, now I find the opposite, fleece or climbing tights are Ok when wet
as they stay in constant contact and therefore reasonably warm. Flappy
material moves away from contact, gets cold and then remakes (cold)
contact. A bit like the awful putting on of wet clothes in the
morning.
Mike Reid
Looking north-west towards the Ben & the Houses of Parliament,
Hill shareware, quiz, books at "http://www.fellwalker.mcmail.com"




Subject: Re: NEW VIRUS ALERT
From: Si Jerram (sijerramspamoff@ntlworld.com)

Ben M wrote:
> stevew885 wrote in message <39115962.1C4FECCD@netscapeonline.co.uk>...
> >F U GET A AN EMAIL THE ONLY CONTAINS THE WORDS "I LOVE YOU" IN CAPITAL
> >LETTERS, DO NOT OPEN IT ON ANY ACCOUNT.

> >THIS IS A NEW VIRUS, DELETE IT STRAIGHT AWAY !!!!

> yep, its just done the rounds in our place. 
> When you open the attachment it

[BOGGLE!!!!!]

Are people really that thick.

You should never open attachments unless you know who sent them and
why...

--
Simon Jerram   Email:sjerram@ntlworld.com
Personal home page http://www.telos.clara.co.uk/
GaSCit 2K 5-9th August 2000, Kibblestone campsite Staffordshire:
http://www.gascit.jpsonline.com/




Subject: Re: Fisherfield Forest
From: chris gilbert (chris.gilbert@postoffice.co.uk)


Robbie wrote in message <8errpl$duk$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>...
>Has anyone walked the group of Munro's in the Fisherfield forest. Friends
>and I are hoping to do all 6 over two days leaving from Dundonnal and
>finishing in Poolewe. Any comments, hints, warnings would be much
>appreciated. Is the Shenavall bothy open for anyone to use or only Bothy
>Group members? Seems like an ideal oppoertunity to really "go-wild"!!


The last time I was there the bothy was still water tight and there was
nobody
about to stop you from using it. While it's well situated for An Teallach,
Bein Dearg Mor and, at a pinch, Ben a Cleave it's a long walk from there
to The Maiden and Ben Lair. There is another and less well known bothy
on the shores of Dubh Loch at the head of Fionn Loch called Carn Mor,
well on your way to the walk out to Poolewe. If you're prepared to split
your
visit between the two bothys then it will be advantageous logistically.
Having
said that, however, it makes your proposed two-day expedition somewhat
ambitious. I have noticed that a lot of people camp in the valley below the
N flank of Ben a Cleave before the climb up to the bealach to Dubh Loch.
This puts you pretty much central for the whole area.

Chris






Subject: Re: NEW VIRUS ALERT
From: Bernard Peek (bernard@postar.com)

In article <39115962.1C4FECCD@netscapeonline.co.uk>, stevew885
<stevew885@netscapeonline.co.uk> writes
>F U GET A AN EMAIL THE ONLY CONTAINS THE WORDS "I LOVE YOU" IN CAPITAL
>LETTERS, DO NOT OPEN IT ON ANY ACCOUNT.
>
>THIS IS A NEW VIRUS, DELETE IT STRAIGHT AWAY !!!!
>
>I WAS TOLD ABOUT THIS MY MY PARTNER WHO WORKS IN THE INDUSTRY, AND SHE
>HAS HAD IT CONFIRMED BY OTHER LARGE COMPANIES.
>
>GET AN UPDATE FOR YOUR ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE AS IT IS A BRAND NEW VIRUS.

Unlike virtually every other news posting of this type, there seems to
be some truth here. It's another Outlook macro-virus, see:



http://www.pa.press.net/news/story/technology_internet-virus_4865.html

http://www.zdnetasia.com/breakingnews/stories/0,20000504,10003929,00.htm
l


-- 
Bernard Peek
IT Manager, POSTer Audience Research -- POSTAR Ltd.
27 Sale Place, London, W2 1YR. (0171 479-9702)
Bernard@postar.co.uk




Subject: Re: Bivvy Bags vs. 1 man tent.
From: glenn1062@my-deja.com (glenn1062@my-deja.com)

In article <8erfar$e3g$1@gxsn.com>,
  "Stuart Blackwell" <stuart@studiodm.co.uk> wrote:

 I am quite taken by the idea of a 'bivvy
> bag', it being both compact and lightweight.  Ignoring the orange bin bag
> used in emergencies I'm considering a Goretext clad bag (a simple cover for
> a sleeping bag) or perhaps the more sophisticated model which looks like a
> long narrow tent with a single hoop at the head end.
>
> Does anyone have any experiences of these (like falling over one in the dark
> and impaling the occupant with your pole) and can you suggest a decent
> supplier?
>

Ex army Gortex Bivvy bags are cheap (approx 25 when I got mine a few years
ago). The ones I've seen don't have a zip on the top so midges in Scotland
could be a problem, but they have lots of space inside (plenty of room for
machine guns etc).

Glenn


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.





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Subject: Re: Haunted Lakeland Fells!
From: alex.clarke (alex.clarke@ntlworld.com)

My mother has a book about this very subject. When I next visit I`ll get the
details (author, publisher etc.) and post to this group. Stories in it
include a Roman Centurion on Bowfell, Talkin Tarn being haunted and a story
about "The Luck" of Brougham, some kind of holy grail type thing, along with
many others.
Paul Rose <paul@rose159.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8f9s6v$ct$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> Hi All
>
> A bit of a weird topic you might think? Well, as I've been walking the
fells
> of the English Lake District I've come across a few tales of some fells
and
> lakes being "haunted". For example there is Souther Fell, where between
the
> years of 1735 and 1745, and always on Midsummer Eve, reports of an army
> along with horses and carriages etc., were seen marching along the fell
side
> for over an hour! Then there is Mockerkin Tarn which is said to be haunted
> by Sir Mochar the dwarf!
>
> Does anyone else know of any fells, or lakes (or indeed cottages/pubs
etc.),
> in the Lake District which have similar tales attached to them? I wonder
> just how many "haunted" fells/lakes/ etc. there are?
>
> All the best, Paul R
> in Middlesbrough, England, UK.
>
> Researching ROSE in Cleveland, Durham and Suffolk.
>
>
>






Subject: Re: GPS routes/software
From: Paul Saunders (pvs1@wildwales.fsnet.co.uk)

On Thu, 11 May 2000 15:42:34 +0100, "Guy Austin"
<guy.austin@unn.ac.uk> wrote:

>I'm sure regulars here will be fed up with this topic but as I'm new here...
>What is the recommended method/software that I should use to program my
>Garmin eTrex . Thanks

The latest version of OziExplorer supports the eTrex.

Go to http://www.oziexplorer.com/ and download it, it's only a few
meg.  The Ordnance Survey calibration is disabled in the trial
version, but apart from that it's fully working.  It's well worth the
asking price to get OS calibration working.

Paul Saunders




Subject: Re: energy bars
From: Paul Saunders (pvs1@wildwales.fsnet.co.uk)

On Wed, 10 May 2000 20:40:38 +0100, "Peter Hulme"
<pehulme@callnetuk.com> wrote:

>can anyone recommend any energy bars to take when walking

Chocolate!!!

Available in hundreds of different varieties, on sale everywhere!

Paul Saunders




Subject: Re: Aran Fawddwy
From: Neal Milne (neal@njtm.freeservenospam.co.uk)

Easier than Snowdon although navigation might be more difficult in hill fog.
Like the other posting said I'd recommend going up the steeper path to the
south from the Dinas Mawwddy side to get the height gain over with. It also
allows a nice easy decent which would be otherwise boring to walk up. When I
was there about a month ago there were kids of all ages going up it so its
pretty easy. Sorry I can't be more precise about the route but my mate was
navigating as he owns a map of the area and I don't.

Neal






Subject: Re: First Munro?
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?"=AC=02"_ (planet@myddryn.fsnet.co.uk)


David Springthorpe said:
> They should sort you out.....and there may be a couple of good sorts
> amongst them, unless they're all mail.....it could be your red letter
> day.....
And I replied:
R U trying to cast aspersions upon my impeccable character? The only mail I
share a tent/sleeping bag with are the paper ones that I've written
myself!!lol
Ann
I used to be Snow White but I drifted!(Mae West)



David Springthorpe <dspringy@one.net.au> wrote in message
news:391ab986.8837726@news.one.net.au...
> >I met a bunch of Inverness Post Office workers on Beinn Alligin
> >(Torridon) a few years ago.  Try asking at the sorting office.
>
> They should sort you out.....and there may be a couple of good sorts
> amongst them, unless they're all mail.....it could be your red letter
> day.....






Subject: Re: energy bars
From: Neal Milne (neal@njtm.freeservenospam.co.uk)


"Trevor Dennis" <trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Mmr5jXAGpcG5EwOi@tdennis.demon.co.uk...
> Peter Hulme writes
>
> >can anyone recommend any energy bars to take when walking
>
> And reasonable tasting mixers for hydration systems?
>
I don't use energy drink in my camelbak cause they're unnecessary unless
you're a real athlete pushing the limits. Its far more weight efficient to
carry your calories in solid form. Other downside of using energy drink is
if you don't rinse and sterilise the Camelbak properly you get cack growing
in it. If I flavour the contents of my Camelback I use no sugar squash,
again to keep out anything bugs could grow in.

Neal






Subject: Walking in N. Wales
From: Jenny Brett (jennyb@madasafish.com)

Having just had ten days of pretty good weather here in the
principality, I'm cursing myself that I've not made better use of them.

Is there anyone, also in N. Wales, who would like to help get me off my
behind and into the hills?

I'm an enthusiastic (though slow-ish) walker and I have the luxury of no
employment. I'd go with the other half, but someone has to earn the
money!

Replies by email would help to keep uneccessary traffic off the group.

Jenny





Subject: Re: Hameldons?
From: alex.clarke (alex.clarke@ntlworld.com)

Yes I suppose they do although I guess that the "scars" are at least
partially manmade. (mining activity etc.). Does this count?
Stephen Robinson <barley@hm-walks.co.uk> wrote in message
news:39170bb8.0@katana.legend.co.uk...
> The root is possibly the same as the Hambleton Hills and Black Hambleton
in
> Yorkshire. The name  means 'Scarred Hill', its a common hill name in
> Yorkshire and most of them are characterised by their scars.
>
> Does your Hameldon and Great Hameldon have scars?
>
>
> ----------
> In article <H92R4.984$4h.23754@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com>,
"alex.clarke"
> <alex.clarke@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>
> > Does anyone know where the name Hameldon comes from? I refer to the
> > Lancashire hills of Hameldon and Great Hameldon. Not to mention Black
> > Hameldon. What on earth does Hameldon mean?
> >
> >






Subject: Re: Kungsleden, Sweden
From: Jonathan Pearce (jvpearce@jvpearce.fsnet.co.uk)

Thanks all.

Jon.

Simon Rayner <srayner@nospam.offa.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Eu1TTIAmUmF5EwXO@offa.demon.co.uk...
> Jon,
> It's a great place to be, though the season is fairly short (about May
> to September) and there are mosquitos, as there are everywhere in
> Sweden. You have to be more organized than for fell-walking in the UK -
> you can't just nip down to the local shop. Friends of mine have spent
> ages specially drying provisions.
> It's a well-walked and well-documented route, though, with good maps and
> waymarking. Sometimes you have to ford rivers, and even (I think) take a
> boat across (boats are self-service). There are cabins to stay in if you
> don't have a tent, and you can get keys for these in advance from the
> Swedish Tourist Organisation (STF). Again, I'm going a little bit on
> memory. If you leave it till the end of the season (beginning of
> September), you will be rewarded by wonderful (and I mean like you've
> never seen before) colours of dwarf birch and the other bushes that make
> up ground cover (there are no other trees that far north) and it becomes
> too cold for the mosquitos, although daytime temperatures can still be
> 15 degrees C (can be frost at night, though).
>
> Simon
>
> In article <8f4mgp$1p3$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>, Jonathan Pearce
> <jvpearce@jvpearce.fsnet.co.uk> writes
> >Does anybody have any experience of walking the northern part of this
trail?
> >I'd be interested to hear more. I would also be interested if anyone
knows
> >of any literature about this trail.
> >
> >TIA,
> >
> >Jon Pearce
> >
> >
> >
>
> Simon Rayner. Why not walk Offa's Dyke Trail this year? For details
> see http://www.offa.demon.co.uk/offa.htm or email me (remove nospam)






Subject: Re: Craghopper DB Rucksack
From: Trevor Dennis (trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk)

Jon Doran writes

Hi Jon, and what far flung corner of the 
globe have you just come back from?

-- 
Trevor Dennis




Subject: Re: Advice & information please - Lake District Walking
From: Graham (gracom@btinternet.com)

Thank you for the info. We're travelling up next week 16th/17th May.

Should be Great!






Subject: Re: Wilderness Walks
From: Richard Webb (gripped@crux.u-net.com)

On Wed, 10 May 2000 20:14:15 +0100, Roger Chapman
<r.chapman@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:

>The message <3919a334.2401878@news.u-net.com>
>  from  gripped@crux.u-net.com (Richard Webb) contains these words: 
>
>> But my money is on Berwickshire
>
>I hope you did not wager too much. Over 50% of Berwickshire is over 
>600' (it includes much of the Lammmermuir hills).

The Lammermuirs are flat  except the Southern Upland fault, which is
on the East Lothian side.  Beyond Duns they rise slowly.  Hillyness <>
height

Mind you these hills may be more lumpy than the Bathgate hills in West
Lothian.  Berwickshire is still quite gentle though

Richard Webb




Subject: Pilgrim's Way
From: Heleen Ransijn (hera@dds.nl)

Dear all,
I'm planning to walk the whole stretch of the Pilgrim's Way from
Winchester to Canterbury in July. Could anyone inform me whether there
is something like a trail guide available somewhere? I know there is
one of the North Downs Way, but this cover only part of the Pilgrim's
Way.

Heleen

hera@dds.nl




Subject: Re: Pilgrim's Way
From: Strider (strider@walkse.ezesurf.co.uk)

On 11 May 2000 hera@dds.nl (Heleen Ransijn) happily wrote in uk.rec.walking 
:

>Dear all,
>I'm planning to walk the whole stretch of the Pilgrim's Way from
>Winchester to Canterbury in July. Could anyone inform me whether there
>is something like a trail guide available somewhere? I know there is
>one of the North Downs Way, but this cover only part of the Pilgrim's
>Way.
>
>Heleen
>
>hera@dds.nl
>

Here you are, I've just found this one on AMAZON for you:

http://s1.amazon.co.uk/exec/varzea/ts/exchange-
glance/Y01Y3719036Y4765464/qid=958083835/sr=1-1/ref=z_ob_qs/026-0505317-
6641839


-- 
Strider

<<<<DOH!>>>>




Subject: Re: underwear
From: james (jmacar@pacifier.com)

I wear mine on the outside

Jim

Coral & John Fisher wrote in message ...
>Tilley Underwear is super, especially for hiking - wash and dry overnight .
>Coral & John
>
>
>dontspamme.ivan_n <ivan@incomputing.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:o2pbhssd2ne61lrrk53kddeg6iub6h806j@4ax.com...
>>
>> Thanks for all the feedback on this. To any that are interested the
>> recommendation was for Alpine Lowe.
>>
>> Any recommendations for comfortable underwear when jogging & brisk
>> walking/rambling?
>>
>> Ivan
>>
>
>






Subject: Re: underwear
From: Strider (strider@walkse.ezesurf.co.uk)

On 12 May 2000 jmacar@pacifier.com (james) happily wrote in uk.rec.walking 
:

>I wear mine on the outside
>

Superman! Is it really you?
-- 
Strider

"I have a 7 inch round piece of vinyl with a hole in the middle, is
this a record?"




Subject: Re: OT Desperately seeking Akela
From: Derek Biddle (derek@pinnacleprojects.demon.co.uk)

In article <8feuhu$1m2$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>, Andy Crawford <Andy@Skyw
orld.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>
>Gordon Harris <gordon@g3snx.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>> >>
>> >So the SA promote body shame eh!
>> >
>> No.  But they have to satisfy the textile(?) parents that their children
>> are being treated with respect.
>>
>Understandably, but it seems that the wishes of the textile (thats a nudist
>term for people that are compelled to wear clothing for fear of being seen,
>and often expect others to aswell) are respected by default.
>
>If parents demand that their children are sheilded from seeing another human
>being then they should make it known. In the same way that I have informed
>my kids school that we are vegetarian.
>
>The original point was "this is a Scout camp not a nudist camp"
>
>AndyC
>
>

The parents do not demand that their children are shielded from seeing
other human beings, but they do not *expect* them to be taken to where
other human beings are doing things that are not conventional, even if
not unnatural. 

You might not like the fact that it is unconventional to the bulk of the
public but it is a fact. More parents expect the adults around their YP
to be wearing at least some clothes than would expect them not to be.

In the same way, it is more likely than not that people expect others to
eat meat, so you are taking the precaution of making sure that the
school is aware that they should not expect/ compell your children to do
so. In Scouting, we always ask.

As far as using the term 'textile' in a rather perjorative way, most
parents would not be happy giving the care of their YP to Scout Leaders
if they seemed to be extracting the urine out of the parents.

I also guess that there are not many jobs that can be carried out
without emulating 'textiles' - except perhaps being the Warden at one of
the Camps (and then not a Scout one)

Which I guess is what 'conventional' means. 



>
>

-- 
Derek Biddle




Subject: Re: OT Desperately seeking Akela
From: Andy Crawford (andy@skyworld.freeserve.co.uk)


Marc <marc@jaceeprint.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1eah0oj.1evj3612ivsjdN@jaceeprint.demon.co.uk...
> Derek Biddle <Derek@pinnacleprojects.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > The kids (or YP) have chosen to join Scouts, and we have no right to
> > make decisions on their behalf to take them to a nudist camp, or to turn
> > our own sites into them.
>
> This instruction was aimed at the YP, not at those organising  the
> sites. It is implanting in the YP that there is something to be ashamed
> of .
>
This is my point exactly. My own beleif is that the opposite is true. To
purposely *hide* behind a facia of clothing is (for me) somethimg to be
ashamed of. Why hide the body if you've got nothing to hide?. That might
sound a bit extremist but the thought of being seen in shorts (for modesty)
makes me very self concious. As for being photographed with shorts on fills
me with fear (shucks! what would folk think of me!).

AndyC






Subject: Re: OT Desperately seeking Akela
From: Andy Crawford (andy@skyworld.freeserve.co.uk)


Derek Biddle <Derek@pinnacleprojects.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> Please consider how offensive it is to other Scout Leaders to say in
> effect that 'kids' (or YP) are safer with naturists than Scout Leaders.
>
> Isn't that just a tad kettles and pots?
>
Nope as Gordon Harris kindly pointed out in reply,
Quote
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
That may well be true (I suspect, and only suspect), mainly because in a
nudist camp the children's parents would, under normal circumstances, be
present, and keeping an eye on their kids, especially in the pool etc.

The danger in the Scout movement, and in other similar situations
(children's homes, etc), is that pedophiles are often attracted by the
opportunities presented in these situations where the supervisors have
the power of surrogate parenthood.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
unquote

Also the ratio of  adults to children also helps. If there are plenty of
other adults around it makes it harder for the pedophiles to attack. This is
no way a slur on Scout leaders, but the position that they are in, could
more easiliy be abused (should they be inclined).

Anyway, sorry if you took offence.

AndyC








Subject: Re: OT Desperately seeking Akela
From: Andy Crawford (andy@skyworld.freeserve.co.uk)


Derek Biddle <Derek@pinnacleprojects.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> CHoose what you want for you and your children and let others choose for
> themselves and their children. In Scouting, we cannot make the choice
> for other people's children.
>
I agree, however the attitide of institutions seems to be opposed to nudity
and for body shame as default. If you statement were true and that choices
were not being made then a neutral attitude toward nudity would prevail. And
if some YP were to expose a part of their anatomy whilst doing their
personal hygiene stuff that would be in no way wrong.







Subject: Re: Garmin GPS iii+
From: rfc (phantom@poboxes.com)

I recently did a lot of research on this and there are a few things to
remember.  If you get a model wit ha base map like the eMap, you will
probably want one with European maps... and you can't buy these in the US...

I chose the eMap because I wanted to use if in the car as well and I also
find that it is helpful to have that network of roads to check navigating
by.  I you buy the cd map and memory cartridge the cost is around 300 but
it works fabulously and has even tiny roads on it.  You can then up load
your actual route to the computer, or download the proposed route.

rfc



Michael Muir-Browne <michael@camerawork.f9.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MYiS4.969$J5.50306@stones...
> Anyone knwo a supplier of cheap GPS III +?
>
> cheers
>
> Michael
>
>






Subject: Re: GPS & selective availability
From: W.D.Grey (bill@graigroad.demon.co.uk)

In article <HGW77IAwlcG5EwMu@tdennis.demon.co.uk>, Trevor Dennis
<trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk> writes
>If I don't hit a convenient traffic jamb 
Leg it!
-- 
Bill
http://www.graigroad.demon.co.uk




Subject: Re: energy bars
From: Peter Clinch (p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk)

Neal Milne wrote:
> 
> "Trevor Dennis" <trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:Mmr5jXAGpcG5EwOi@tdennis.demon.co.uk...
> > Peter Hulme writes
> >
> > >can anyone recommend any energy bars to take when walking
> >
> > And reasonable tasting mixers for hydration systems?
> >
> I don't use energy drink in my camelbak cause they're unnecessary unless
> you're a real athlete pushing the limits. 

But rehydration recipes are, I find, more effective than plain water. 
You can either go for the bought ones or various DIY recipes.  Popular
one is a mix of water, oranje juice and a little salt, though I forget
the magic concentrations offhand.

For food, fruit, fresh or dried, at reasonably regular intervals works
well and tastes nice too.

Pete.
-- 
Peter Clinch			University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637	Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177		Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk	http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/




Subject: Re: Wilderness Walks
From: Paul Simonite (stationhouse@zetnet.co.uk)

The message <391aaea6.12708543@news.freeserve.net>
  from  pvs1@wildwales.fsnet.co.uk (Paul Saunders) contains these words: 

> Sorry to be pedantic, but no one has yet bothered to point out that
> flatness has nothing to do with height. 


The bulk of Caithness undulates between 50 and 150m in height.  With 
the exception of the range of mountains which form the boundary 
between Caithness and Sutherland the county of Caithness is both low 
lying *and* flat.  It is within this basin, the source of the Wick 
and Thurso rivers, that much of the blanket bog of the Eastern Flow 
Country lies.  It makes for difficult walking terrain but a challenge 
for those who undertake cross-country style walking.
-- 
Cheers,

Compo

Oh no! It's TOWRIST season again :(





Subject: Re: energy bars
From: Chris Garwood (cgarwood@talk21.com)

>powder form from most good bike shops. I find it just ticks me
over although
>drinking to much of it can upset my stomach. Almost all of the
energy drinks
>are based on Maltodextrin which takes a while to absorb and
provides more
>lasting energy. Fruit juices tend to be simple sugars which
provide instant
>energy but gets used quickly.
>
>Another favourite of mine for when you really are about to
collapse is energy
>gel. Maxim do a small 100g packet with a cap on it. It's
basically glucose
>syrup in a squeezy packet and is a real instant energy boost.
Not that kind on
>your teeth though. Sort of a liquid kendal mint cake.

I totally agree with you about the Maxim Gel Packs, great
arent't they, Power Gel do a similar product that is
Maltodextrin as seems to work well as long as you plan ahead.
What I do is fill my Camelback with a orange juice/ water and
salt combo. Carry a Baggel in my Jersy (now they are a great
energy bar) and a Maxim Gel Pack. I know that the Orange juice
is insant but sip small amounts as you go works very well for
me.

PS I'm Diabetic so my energy requirement although more urgent
should be what a normal person aims at .... I think


===================================================================
"It's not that I can't pedal, I jsut have this mental block" Rob Warner

http://www.geocities.com/Pipeline/Ramp/5486/ or http://www.mtb.ob.nu
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!





Subject: Re: lightweight breathable waterproof jackets
From: rfc (phantom@poboxes.com)

Available from Gaynor Sport outlet shop for 33 inc postage, or less if you
want the half zip version

Gaynor's Factory Outlet or Main Store by post, fax, telephone or email. To
   order simply telephone 015394 34204, fax: 015394 34256, or by post to
Gaynor Sports, Market Cross,
   Ambleside, Cumbria, LA22 9BT, U.K.





Phil Heather <Phil-Heather@36haroldstreet.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8f6tdp$am5$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Hi I'm looking for the most breathable lightweight waterproof jacket
> there is (aren't we all)
> I like Paramo for breathability and waterproof-ness but find it quite
> heavy and hot in summer, and Pertex is great but not exactly
> waterproof
> Any one used Berghaus Pac-lite or other similar 2ply gore-tex?
> How do you measure and compare breathability, and waterproofness
> objectively?
>
> Any advice, recommendations, pointers to good reviews etc would be
> gratefully received!
>
> Yours
> Phil
>
>






Subject: Re: GPS & selective availability
From: Gordon Harris (gordon@g3snx.demon.co.uk)

In article <nXTyTHAot7G5Ew53@graigroad.demon.co.uk>, W.D.Grey
<Bill@graigroad.demon.co.uk> writes
>In article <HGW77IAwlcG5EwMu@tdennis.demon.co.uk>, Trevor Dennis
><trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk> writes
>>If I don't hit a convenient traffic jamb 

>Leg it!

Uh- oh!   I thought that would open the door to some puns.
-- 
Gordon





Subject: Re: Advice & information please - Lake District Walking
From: Matti Lamprhey (matti@polka.bikini)

"Graham" <gracom@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:8ff8em$kn2$1@uranium.btinternet.com...
> Thank you for the info. We're travelling up next week 16th/17th May.
>
> Should be Great!

See you there, then.

Matti






Subject: Re: NEW VIRUS ALERT
From: Thomas Rankin (postmaster@sanguinarius.demon.co.uk)

In message <391afdaa$0$31673@news.zetnet.co.uk>
          "Matt Wetherill" <m.weth@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:

> Jim Wallis <Jim.Wallis@cableinet.co.uk> wrote
> > Robert Metcalf wrote:
> > >
> > > I think all in all, this shows one fatal flaw in Microsoft Outlook
> express,
> > > the best email & newsreading program around today
> <big snip >
> > > Prehaps if a few ppl do this we may actually see this type of virus
> > > obsoulte.
> >
> > WTF?????
> >
> > JIM
> 
> My thoughts exactly
> 
> Matt
> 
> 
He's been brainwashed, some recover given time. :-p




Subject: Re: energy bars
From: Dan Cole (dan@alpinefun.demon.co.uk)

Kellogg's Nutrigrain bars are very good.  A useful mix of simple and
complex carbohydrates and quite tasty too.  The best thing about these
compared to all the sports specific bars is that are much softer and
easier to eat, no chewing required (an even bigger advantage in cold
weather).  I eat them in racing and training and judging by the bins at
the end of races so do many others.

Dan

In article <KpHS4.2$f04.112@news.enterprise.net>, Shaun C. Murray
<shaun@gofar-mtb.com> writes
>In message <Mmr5jXAGpcG5EwOi@tdennis.demon.co.uk>, Trevor Dennis wrote:
>> Peter Hulme writes
>> 
>> >can anyone recommend any energy bars to take when walking
>
>Go Bars aren't bad. Cliff Bars taste not too bad either. Power Bars yuk. Boots
>own brand are surprisingly good for the money. Try the apricot ones. Some of
>the High Five bars aren't bad but watch out for the protein bars if you're a
>veggie - they aren't. Almost all of them require way too much chewing. 
>
>However, Malt loaf with butter whilst slightly bulkier is a good cheap
>substitute and quite good. Dried fruit (from the cooking section in
>supermarkets) is also worthwhile. Compare the kCal values on the back of the
>packets and they get fairly close to that of the high price energy bars. Not
>all carbohydrates work in quite the same way though so a Mars Bar for instance
>may have plenty of instant energy in it but it doesn't help in the long run and
>the temporary sugar hit may upset your energy levels more.
>
>> 
>> And reasonable tasting mixers for hydration systems?
>
>PSP-22 is my favourite although citrus Maxim is quite nice too. Buy it in
>powder form from most good bike shops. I find it just ticks me over although
>drinking to much of it can upset my stomach. Almost all of the energy drinks
>are based on Maltodextrin which takes a while to absorb and provides more
>lasting energy. Fruit juices tend to be simple sugars which provide instant
>energy but gets used quickly.
>
>Another favourite of mine for when you really are about to collapse is energy
>gel. Maxim do a small 100g packet with a cap on it. It's basically glucose
>syrup in a squeezy packet and is a real instant energy boost. Not that kind on
>your teeth though. Sort of a liquid kendal mint cake.
>
>> 
>>  [x-posted to uk.rec.cycling coz 
>>  they know about stuff like this]
> 
>

-- 
Dan Cole




Subject: Re: energy bars
From: Myra Van Inwegen (mvi20@sprat.cl.cam.ac.uk)

Shaun C. Murray  <shaun@gofar-mtb.com> wrote:
>In message <Mmr5jXAGpcG5EwOi@tdennis.demon.co.uk>, Trevor Dennis wrote:
>> Peter Hulme writes
>> 
>> >can anyone recommend any energy bars to take when walking
>
>Go Bars aren't bad. Cliff Bars taste not too bad either. Power Bars
>yuk.

While I agree with this, I don't see the point of Power Bars and their
ilk at all. There's very little in them to justify the high price. I
go for the lower-fat types of cereal bars. Read the find print on the
boxes to find them. The Quaker apple & raisin ones are good, as are
all varieties of Jordan's chewy Frusli bars.

>However, Malt loaf with butter whilst slightly bulkier is a good cheap
>substitute and quite good. Dried fruit (from the cooking section in
>supermarkets) is also worthwhile.

I second both of these suggestions, except that dried fruit is better
bought at health food shops. It can be very expensive in the fancy
packages you get in supermarkets. 

I used to balk at carrying Malt loaf since it's a bit bulky. Now I
slice it up (get about 7 slices from one laof), put marg on one side,
put pairs of slices together with marg side inside, put 3 stacks side
by side, and put cling film around it. Then it's much flatter and fits
in my bum bag or Camelbak better. (And I eat the 7th slice.)
--
-Myra VanInwegen                 mvi20@cl.cam.ac.uk
Myra's Bike Pages                http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mvi20/bike/
GoFar magazine : UK XC MTB       http://www.gofar-mtb.com/




Subject: Re: Snowdonia - Book Recommendation
From: Paul Saunders (pvs1@wildwales.fsnet.co.uk)

On Wed, 10 May 2000 21:58:09 +0100, Trevor Dennis
<trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>Hmmm.  I seem to have been remarkably lucky, all in all,
>with the weather on my trips to Snowdonia. Except, for 
>some reason, when doing Tryfan. :(

Snowdon is my jinx.  First time I climbed it in marvellous sunshine,
but I had a problem with the camera and none of the photos came out.
Second time I couldn't make it to the top because I'd hurt my knee the
previous day descending Tryfan in the dark.  Third time was the
Horseshoe in the fog and rain.  On other occasions I didn't even
bother because of bad weather.

Tryfan on the other hand, is my best friend.  I've had clear sunshine
every time I've climbed it, and on two occasions (due to most
opportune timing) I've had the entire mountain to myself.  How many
other people can say that about Tryfan?

Paul Saunders
-- 
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk




Subject: Re: Walking in N. Wales
From: Paul Saunders (pvs1@wildwales.fsnet.co.uk)

On Thu, 11 May 2000 20:01:16 +0100, Jenny Brett
<jennyb@madasafish.com> wrote:

>Having just had ten days of pretty good weather here in the
>principality, I'm cursing myself that I've not made better use of them.

Is that the same pretty good weather that I've had down south?  i.e.
extremely hazy sunshine?  That's not what I call good weather, I hate
haze.  I've just spent a few days in the Beacons and I didn't bother
to take my serious camera because of the haze, so I took my frivolous
camera instead.

What a mistake!  Two days ago I witnessed probably the most
spectacular post-sunrise temperature-inversion fogbank that I've ever
seen.  It was quite incredible - a massive bank of fog rising high
into the sky from behind the distant Fan Brycheiniog, I'd estimate
maybe 1000 metres high, or even more.  I was too far away to really do
it justice with my fixed 35mm lens compact, although I tried.  If only
I'd had a telephoto lens with me...

Before I knew it the fog was rushing up out of the valleys and
swirling around the hilltops.  I was on Foel Fraith at the time.  I
took loads of photos, including a number of panoramas (one 180
degrees).  I don't know how well my frivolous camera managed to
capture it all, but I'll have the photos back in a few hours and
assuming no mishaps I'll get them scanned and put on my website
shortly.

It was an amazing experience, and it happened in May!  I didn't think
you could get weather like that in May.  I love it when the weather
throws a surprise like that.  For the rest of the day it was extremely
windy, from the east.  In spite of the strong hazy sun, I had to keep
covered up all day because of the windchill.

Strange weather indeed...

Paul Saunders
-- 
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk




Subject: Re: Wilderness Walks
From: Paul Saunders (pvs1@wildwales.fsnet.co.uk)

On Mon, 08 May 2000 08:26:06 +0100, Jenny Brett
<jennyb@madasafish.com> wrote:

>Trevor Dennis wrote:
>> 
>> Paul Saunders writes
>> 
>> >unlike a certain group of people on a certain island I could mention.
>> 
>> They'd never have selected anyone from this NG for that project.
>> We're too stable to produce the histrionics required for 'good
>> television'.
>> 
>> --
>> Trevor Dennis
>
>Perhaps more to the point, most on this newsgroup wouldn't have applied
>in the first place?!
>
>Jenny

Too true.  I like the idea of living on a remote Scottish island, but
with 30 other people?  No chance!

I think most hillwalking types enjoy solitude to a greater or lesser
extent, and are sometimes perhaps not the most sociable people in the
world.  I think I'm pretty sociable, but I hate crowds, and I define a
crowd as anything greater than four people.

I think the Castaways community would primarily appeal to "townies",
at least that's what they seem to consist of.

Paul Saunders
-- 
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk




Subject: Re: wilderness wales
From: Paul Saunders (pvs1@wildwales.fsnet.co.uk)

On Sun, 07 May 2000 23:20:51 +0000, Alan Ashton <am.ashton@virgin.net>
wrote:

>also about a week ago.
>> >
>> >You folks really should invest in an AppleMac...
>> >Alan
>> 
>> What's sort of quantity and quality of software is there?
>> 
>> Paul Saunders
>
>Everything you want really.  I suppose Mac's have really been more for
>serious use ie printing, graphics and education, but lately,since the 
>i-mac came out, there have been a lot more games and things.  But it is
>annoying that some companies only bring out pc versions of their
>software.  However, there are two Windows emmulaters you can buy, which
>will run Windows applications on a Mac, so you can get the best of both
>worlds.
>Alan

Seriously, if I had the cash to spare, I think I would buy a non-PC.
But then I'd have to buy all the software for it, and I've already got
a huge investment in PC software, so there's no way I can give up my
PC, whether I like it or not.

As for Windows Emulators, I'm highly skeptical.  There are many
programs (games primarily) which have all sorts of specific
driver/hardware requirements, that I doubt many would work properly
through an emulator.  Many games have trouble running on a PC!!!

Although though I'm sure there must be Mac games available, I'm pretty
certain that most wargames aren't available.  Wargames are my gaming
passion and the market is very limited, so most wargames are PC only.

I suppose it would be practical to have a PC as a games machine and
use a Mac for serious stuff, particularly graphics.

I'll just carry on dreaming for now, I just ain't got the cash to
spare.  On the other hand, I keep hearing good things about Linux...

Paul Saunders
-- 
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk




Subject: Re: GPS & selective availability
From: Paul Saunders (pvs1@wildwales.fsnet.co.uk)

On Mon, 8 May 2000 21:55:03 +0100, Trevor Dennis
<trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>I'm more worried about innocent promenaders.  You'll 
>need to walk a straight path to get meaningful results,
>so woe betide anyone who gets in your way.

Indeed.  In fact, there is a line painted down the middle, to separate
cyclists and walkers (I'm not sure where the joggers are supposed to
go).  I think I'll walk along the line.

I also think I might choose the very early morning while everyone else
is asleep.

Paul Saunders
-- 
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk




Subject: Re: GPS & selective availability
From: Paul Saunders (pvs1@wildwales.fsnet.co.uk)

On Mon, 8 May 2000 19:25:38 +0100, "W.D.Grey"
<Bill@graigroad.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>The "Metric Inch" map suffered the same problem, as Rally Car navigators
>bemoaned the deficiencies of the new maps. It was the same old problem,
>the roads were rationalised not truly represented.

Interesting you should mention rallying, I'm rather interested in
that.

I've recently bought a new rally game - Mobil 1 Rally Championship -
which has been years in the making.  It claims to be the most accurate
rally game ever.  It certainly looks it.  The graphics are supposedly
"photo-realistic".  I think that's a slight exaggeration but it
certainly comes close.

In order to make the tracks as accurate as possible they based the
stages on OS maps and then drove along every stage using a video
camera to record every detail.  Apparently, so they claim, every twist
and turn is represented accurately, every tree, every patch of mud,
every pile of logs alongside the tracks etc. etc.

Now I can't vouch for the accuracy personally, but six of the stages
are in Wales so I intend to visit one or more and walk/cycle along
them, taking photographs for comparison purposes.

Anyway, my point is that whilst driving (playing the game) there is a
map inset in the corner of the screen which is updated in real time so
that you can see your car's position on the map, and also see the
shape of the corners and junctions that you are approaching.  These
maps are OS 1:50,000 scale, and very often the map shows what appears
to be a perfectly straight track, whilst the track you are driving
along is filled with innumerable tiny twists and turns.

This would seem to validate Bill's observation that the shape of the
roads is simplified on the maps (due to scale and exaggerated width)
rather than being truly represented.

Paul Saunders
-- 
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk




Subject: Re: Snowdon Horseshoe
From: Paul Saunders (pvs1@wildwales.fsnet.co.uk)

On Sun, 7 May 2000 19:52:47 +0100, Trevor Dennis
<trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>Paul Saunders writes
>
>>Which is not to say that I didn't enjoy it.  It was great fun on the
>>way up, but the weather took it's toll and the second half of the walk
>>was a real drag.
>
>Funny how we look back on things and focus on the positive aspects. 

Yes, many of my best memories and anecdotes come from my worst trips -
like the time my tent got flooded then it started to snow - great
camping trip that was!

>I've just watched a TV program about Nietzsche's -  a keen hill walker -
>theory of 'no pain, no gain'. He would say that coping with a bad day
>in the hills makes you a stronger, and better person.

That must explain why we're all such nice people on this newsgroup!

>A 'couch potato' would probably point out that Nietzsche eventually 
>went mad.

No doubt the result of having to return to civilisation afterwards.

>>Hey, there's an idea, perhaps I could do it again when it's sunny?
>
>Wait for me.

OK then, do you want to set a date?  The uk.rec.walkers weekend
doesn't seem to have materialised yet.

Paul Saunders
-- 
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk




Subject: Re: GPS & selective availability
From: Paul Saunders (pvs1@wildwales.fsnet.co.uk)

On Mon, 8 May 2000 11:29:45 +0100, Roger Chapman
<r.chapman@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:

>I think the notion that you walk further just because you are on a 
>slope is a red herring. For that to be really true one would have to 
>adjust ones body so that it remained perpendicular to the surface at 
>all times and, for us mere mortals at least, gravity makes that impossible. 

Interesting way of looking at it.  I'm still trying to convince myself
that you're correct.

(Thinks out loud...) One takes shorter steps when walking uphill,
which decreases the forward distance, also, one's foot reaches the
ground sooner so it doesn't have to travel so far, so that may
actually decrease the distance walked.  Of course this would work in
reverse coming downhill...

>> Someone once said that Wales would be as big as England if you rolled
>> it out flat, and this may be the reason for John Merrill's 20% claim.
>
>Makes good copy but is not remotely true. England has at least as 
>much hilly ground as Wales plus a super abundance of the flat boring stuff.

I never meant to suggest that it was.  It was merely an example to
illustrate people's perception of things.  Besides, most people equate
the word "England" with the flat bit in the south, that's certainly
what springs into my mind whenever I hear the word.  I think Northern
England should be classed as a separate country.

>IIRC grass is rarely found steeper than about 1 in 2 (30) while 
>roads are rarely steeper than 1 in 4.

I've pushed a heavily laden bicycle up a few of those, it felt like I
was climbing Everest!

Paul Saunders
-- 
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk




Subject: Re: OT Desperately seeking Akela
From: Dave Mayall (david.mayall@ukonline.co.uk)

Andy Crawford wrote:

> Also the ratio of  adults to children also helps. If there are plenty of
> other adults around it makes it harder for the pedophiles to attack. This is
> no way a slur on Scout leaders, but the position that they are in, could
> more easiliy be abused (should they be inclined).

Which is, I think, exactly the point that the Scout Leaders in this discussion
were trying to make about the "This is a Scout Camp, not a Nudist Camp" notice.

The position that Scouters are in is one that can provide an opportunity for
abuse. We are fortunate that our appointment procedures are very, very good at 
weeding out potential abusers. Nevertheless, it is incumbent upon us to ensure 
that we all conduct ourselves in such a way as to ensure that we can be seen to
be "cleaner than clean", and that means that skinny dipping on a Scout Camp
is inappropriate

Nudity for young people in a family environment is entirely appropriate, outside
that family environment it isn't.

-- 
Dave Mayall

The views expressed are mine and may not be those of my employer
Private e-mail to david.mayall@ukonline.co.uk please




Subject: Re: energy bars
From: Myra Van Inwegen (mvi20@sprat.cl.cam.ac.uk)

Neal Milne <neal@njtm.freeservenospam.co.uk> wrote:
>I don't use energy drink in my camelbak cause they're unnecessary unless
>you're a real athlete pushing the limits.

I disargee with this. Well, I agree that they are technically
un-necessary, but even for casual athletes (walkers, bike tourists)
energy drink in your water is a constant feeding of calories to your
body, and it's very easily digestible. I find I get much more hungry
when drinking just plain water than when I'm using energy drink.

>Its far more weight efficient to
>carry your calories in solid form.

Again, I disagree with this a great deal. Sure, water is heavy, but
you need to carry water anyway! And the weight of water plus energy
drink mix is a great deal less than the weight of water plus the
equivalent amount of calories carried in just about any other form.

>Other downside of using energy drink is
>if you don't rinse and sterilise the Camelbak properly you get cack growing
>in it.

This is a real problem for me, and for that reason I never use energy
drink in a Camelbak. I do however, use it in water bottles when I'm
using them, since they're easier to clean. 
--
-Myra VanInwegen                 mvi20@cl.cam.ac.uk
Myra's Bike Pages                http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mvi20/bike/
GoFar magazine : UK XC MTB       http://www.gofar-mtb.com/




Subject: Re: GPS & selective availability
From: Gordon Harris (gordon@g3snx.demon.co.uk)

In article <3921cf7d.16758152@news.freeserve.net>, Paul Saunders
<pvs1@wildwales.fsnet.co.uk> writes
>On Mon, 8 May 2000 21:55:03 +0100, Trevor Dennis
><trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>I'm more worried about innocent promenaders.  You'll 
>>need to walk a straight path to get meaningful results,
>>so woe betide anyone who gets in your way.
>
>Indeed.  In fact, there is a line painted down the middle, to separate
>cyclists and walkers (I'm not sure where the joggers are supposed to
>go).  I think I'll walk along the line.
>
If the promenade curves, you may need to walk the centre-line of the
road . . .

>I also think I might choose the very early morning while everyone else
>is asleep.
>
Good idea!

BTW, I downloaded 3 Oziexplorer files yesterday, but when I unzipped
disk01, it stopped after copying 15% of the files, and asked for disc 2.
I pointed it at the disk02 file but it didn't like it.
Am I doing summat wrong?
-- 
Gordon





Subject: Re: energy bars
From: Chris Garwood (cgarwood@talk21.com)

>>Other downside of using energy drink is
>>if you don't rinse and sterilise the Camelbak properly you get
cack growing
>>in it.
>
>This is a real problem for me, and for that reason I never use
energy
>drink in a Camelbak. I do however, use it in water bottles when
I'm
>using them, since they're easier to clean.

This to has been a problem for me, I have found that real
Camelbacks are worth the money as they are better at being
pulled to bits cleaned and put back together, and having the
right tools for the job helps, but as you say water bottles are
easier to clean.


===================================================================
"It's not that I can't pedal, I jsut have this mental block" Rob Warner

http://www.geocities.com/Pipeline/Ramp/5486/ or http://www.mtb.ob.nu
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!





Subject: Re: OT Desperately seeking Akela
From: Kris (usenet8.autumn@nospam.demon.co.uk)

Dave Mayall <david.mayall@ukonline.co.uk> wrote:

>that we all conduct ourselves in such a way as to ensure that we can be seen to
>be "cleaner than clean", and that means that skinny dipping on a Scout Camp
>is inappropriate

Mores change - I once lived in a country where some cities' public
swimming pools were governed by an enforced bye-law that men and women
must always be separated by at least 18 inches of clear water. Threats
of prosecution were also made against parents with naked babies in the
pool. That the society itself had an intrinsic tradition of violence,
corruption, booming sex/drug underworld and a general lack of charity
was an interesting counterpoint.  :-(

>Nudity for young people in a family environment is entirely appropriate, outside
>that family environment it isn't.

Possibly in the UK in the year 2000 - other parts of Europe differ. I
remember Kibblestone international camps in the 70/80's giving some
people problems when the mixed groups from Scandinavia had very
different cultural  assumptions from those of the UK.  :-)
-- 
"The more I know - the more I know I don't know"




Subject: Re: energy bars
From: Myra Van Inwegen (mvi20@sprat.cl.cam.ac.uk)

Dan Cole  <dan@alpinefun.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Kellogg's Nutrigrain bars are very good.  A useful mix of simple and
>complex carbohydrates and quite tasty too.  The best thing about these
>compared to all the sports specific bars is that are much softer and
>easier to eat, no chewing required (an even bigger advantage in cold
>weather).  I eat them in racing and training and judging by the bins at
>the end of races so do many others.

For nutrition, taste, and easy-of-eating they are great, but they tend
to fall apart very easily. You end up trying to catch the crumbs
before they scatter on the ground. If you keep them in a box they
are OK, but if you put them in your bag on their own, they're
history. 

Still, they are great for pre and post ride (or walk or run)
carboloading. I keep some in my office for post-work evening rides.
--
-Myra VanInwegen                 mvi20@cl.cam.ac.uk
Myra's Bike Pages                http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mvi20/bike/
GoFar magazine : UK XC MTB       http://www.gofar-mtb.com/




Subject: Our Little Northern Holiday
From: NERDBIRD1 (nerdbird1@aol.com)

We just returned from a dog sled and skiing holiday to the North Pole. Read
about our failure in front of a warm fire. 
My memoirs "From Brooklyn I Saw Mountains"  Order the book at 1-800- 882-3273.
It's a great read and only $18.95.

My Web Site: http://members.aol.com/nerdbird1

 





Subject: !!Our Little Northern Holiday!!
From: NERDBIRD1 (nerdbird1@aol.com)

Read about our failed attempt to get to the North Pole by ski and sled. Just
click below.
My memoirs "From Brooklyn I Saw Mountains"  Order the book at 1-800- 882-3273.
It's a great read and only $18.95.

My Web Site: http://members.aol.com/nerdbird1

 





Subject: Re: energy bars
From: Fruit (fruit@up-under.demon.co.uk)

In article <KpHS4.2$f04.112@news.enterprise.net>, Shaun C. Murray
<shaun@gofar-mtb.com> writes
>In message <Mmr5jXAGpcG5EwOi@tdennis.demon.co.uk>, Trevor Dennis wrote:
>> Peter Hulme writes
>> 
>> >can anyone recommend any energy bars to take when walking
>
>Go Bars aren't bad. Cliff Bars taste not too bad either. Power Bars yuk. Boots
>own brand are surprisingly good for the money. Try the apricot ones. Some of
>the High Five bars aren't bad but watch out for the protein bars if you're a
>veggie - they aren't. Almost all of them require way too much chewing. 
>
>However, Malt loaf with butter whilst slightly bulkier is a good cheap
>substitute and quite good. Dried fruit (from the cooking section in
>supermarkets) is also worthwhile. Compare the kCal values on the back of the
>packets and they get fairly close to that of the high price energy bars. Not
>all carbohydrates work in quite the same way though so a Mars Bar for instance
>may have plenty of instant energy in it but it doesn't help in the long run and
>the temporary sugar hit may upset your energy levels more.
>
Malt loaf is great, but really needs a cup of tea to do it justice, it's
this requirement which makes it a tricky one on the bike IMHO

Anyone eat it toasted with butter, yummy!!!

-- 
Andy Fewtrell

The Up and Under Group  www.up-under.demon.co.uk
Crewe Clarion Wheelers  www.up-under.demon.co.uk/cycle.htm

Look closely and you'll understand the problem, 
the answer is yet another problem!




Subject: Re: !!Our Little Northern Holiday!!
From: NERDBIRD1 (nerdbird1@aol.com)

Oops wrong signature. Below is the site with the great story.

Read about our failed attempt to reach the North Pole by dog sled and ski,
preferably in front of a warm fire.

http://hometown.aol.com/nerdbird1/npole.html

 





Subject: Re: Our Little Northern Holiday
From: Anita Evans (nga@lingfoot.demon.co.uk)

In article <20000512071026.22317.00005098@ng-md1.aol.com>, NERDBIRD1
<nerdbird1@aol.com> writes
>We just returned from a dog sled and skiing holiday to the North Pole. Read
>about our failure in front of a warm fire.

probably melted the snow :(

> 
>My memoirs "From Brooklyn I Saw Mountains"  Order the book at 1-800- 882-3273.
>It's a great read and only $18.95.
>
>My Web Site: http://members.aol.com/nerdbird1
>
> 
>

-- 
Anita Evans




Subject: Re: miller's dale, Derbyshire
From: Mark (mm@are.ltd.uk)

Hi
I walked though here about six weeks ago, while walking from Buxton to Bakewell
- Beautiful! the Wrigley tin cafe in Millers Dale is an essential stop too!

Neil Tonks wrote:

> "EMILY ROKITA" <emily_rokita@lineone.net> wrote in message
> news:8f9sgl$7d0$1@supernews.com...
> > Does anyone know anything about this particular area, Millers Dale in
> > Derbyshire.
>
> Millers Dale is a very small village set in a steep-sided valley, not far
> from Taddington.  The main feature of the place is two huge iron viaducts
> which cross the valley, formerly carrying a main-line railway and now (for
> the moment) carrying only the Monsal Trail, a footway which runs from
> Bakewell to Chee Dale.
>
> Very much in the limestone area, the surroundings are distinguished by the
> typical small fields and drystone walls of the White Peak.  There are lots
> of walks around the area, and a nice car park at the site of the old railway
> station.
>
> --
> Neil Tonks
>
> Peak District website: http://peakwalking.co.uk

--
__________________________________________________________________________
A.R.E. Limited              Tel: 01252 711777
East Street                 Fax: 01252 723918
Farnham                     Email: mailto:sales@are.ltd.uk
Surrey    GU9 7XU

Distributors of Quality Automotive Parts and Accessories

The views expressed herein are those of the author of this document
and do not necessarily represent the views of this company.
This transmission may be confidential, if you are not the intended
recipient you should notify us.

Visit us on the World Wide Web:- http://www.are.ltd.uk





Subject: Re: OT Desperately seeking Akela
From: Marc (marc@jaceeprint.demon.co.uk)

Dave Mayall <david.mayall@ukonline.co.uk> wrote:

> Nevertheless, it is incumbent upon us to ensure > that we all conduct
ourselves in such a way as to ensure that we can be seen to > be
"cleaner than clean", and that means that skinny dipping on a Scout Camp
> is inappropriate

 But that like many other things -including the WE form -
is simply window dressing to negate the tarnished image that the public
has in the past had of Scout leaders. It's simply an effect of past
"scandals".


-- Marc Printing for Motorsport,car clubs,sports clubs and societies
http://www.jaceeprint.demon.co.uk/JACEE%20MOTORSPORTS%20page.html




Subject: Re: energy bars
From: Howard Waller (howardw@my-deja.com)

In article <8ff2et$s31$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>,
  "Neal Milne" <neal@njtm.freeservenospam.co.uk> wrote:
>... if you don't rinse and sterilise the Camelbak properly you get
cack growing in it....

Although I don't use a camelbak, I find that baby bottle sterilisation
tabs work well to clean up bidons that've had carbo gunk in them.

Howard
-----------------------------------
Oxford City Road Club
http://www.oxfordcityrc.fsnet.co.uk
-----------------------------------


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.




Subject: Re: OT Desperately seeking Akela
From: Steve Smith (stevesmith@unforgettable.com)

Andy Crawford wrote in message <8fg6b7$m08$4@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>...

>I agree, however the attitide of institutions seems to be opposed to nudity
>and for body shame as default. If you statement were true and that choices
>were not being made then a neutral attitude toward nudity would prevail.
And
>if some YP were to expose a part of their anatomy whilst doing their
>personal hygiene stuff that would be in no way wrong.

If on a site with a mixed troop, one of the lads starts exposing part of his
anatomy while washing, however innocently, and that upsets the girls (or
anyone else), then I think it is wrong.  If the same lad wants to
swim/walk/do anything else naked in his own time, that is fine, but not on
my camp.

Steve.







 _____________________________________________________________
 Deja.com: Before you buy.
 http://www.deja.com/
 * To modify or remove your subscription, go to
 http://www.deja.com/edit_sub.xp?group=uk.rec.walking
 * Read this forum at
 http://www.deja.com/group/uk.rec.walking

From:	uk.rec.walking@list.deja.com
Sent:	18 May 2000 04:05
To:	kal1@lineone.net
Subject:	Deja.Com Daily Digest: uk.rec.walking 1/2

 Deja.com Daily Digest:
 uk.rec.walking
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Subject: Re: energy bars
From: Paul Flackett (paul@rainow_bra.demon.co.uk)

In article <8ff2et$s31$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>, Neal Milne <neal@njtm.fre
eservenospam.co.uk> writes
>
>If I flavour the contents of my Camelback I use no sugar squash,
>again to keep out anything bugs could grow in.
>
Sugar is actually used as a preservative (jam, marmalade etc). Residues
of sugary liquid left in an unsealed container will gradually become
more concentrated as the water evaporates. Bacteria are unable to thrive
in such a hostile environment. Impure water alone will actually support
surprisingly large populations of bacteria, fungi & algae. Here ends the
biology lesson;-)
-- 
Paul Flackett

www.rainow.demon.co.uk

Remove _bra to reply by e-mail.




Subject: Re: OT Desperately seeking Akela
From: stephen rainsbury (stephen@rainsbury.freeserve.co.uk)

Andy Crawford <Andy@Skyworld.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8fdkeu$p10$4@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
<SNIP>

> To claim that somone is not fit to be a Scout leader because they belong
to
> a minority group is offensive. To make that claim because they do not have
> hang-ups over nudity is absurd
>
<SNIP>

> So whats so friggin funny? Giggling over nudity is very ,very, immature.

<SNIP>

> Alison, you offer an apology but then try to justify your bigotry!

Sorry Andy could you stop cross posting now please.

There is no way on this planet that any Scout leader in 2000 is going to
allow people to go nude at their camp site, it isn't going to happen.

This is nothing to do with bigotry, right or wrong, it is how most of us
interpret our guidelines (the yellow card).

You may have a pint but you are not going to change anything here, sorry.


--
Stephen Rainsbury
DSL Gillingham Kent UK.
These views are nor necessarily those of the district or county.






Subject: Scarpa Alp For Sale
From: Kenneth Cooke (kenneth@ksjcooke.fsnet.co.uk)

FOR SALE

SCARPA ALP 4 SEASON MOUNTAIN BOOT SIZE 43

HS12 AMPHIBIO LEATHER- M4 SOLE

YETI GAITER AND CRAMPON COMPATABLE

USED VERY LITTLE

65.00      Tel: 0113 257 0519









Subject: Re: OT Desperately seeking Akela
From: Alison (akelali@my-deja.com)


> You may have a pint but you are not going to change anything here,
sorry.
A pInt?  was that a freudian slip? LOL
--
Alison
CSL 16th Edgware
(I doubt my views are shared by my district !!)


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.




Subject: Re: energy bars
From: Shaun C. Murray (shaun@gofar-mtb.com)

In message <Mmr5jXAGpcG5EwOi@tdennis.demon.co.uk>, Trevor Dennis wrote:
> Peter Hulme writes
> 
> >can anyone recommend any energy bars to take when walking

Go Bars aren't bad. Cliff Bars taste not too bad either. Power Bars yuk. Boots
own brand are surprisingly good for the money. Try the apricot ones. Some of
the High Five bars aren't bad but watch out for the protein bars if you're a
veggie - they aren't. Almost all of them require way too much chewing. 

However, Malt loaf with butter whilst slightly bulkier is a good cheap
substitute and quite good. Dried fruit (from the cooking section in
supermarkets) is also worthwhile. Compare the kCal values on the back of the
packets and they get fairly close to that of the high price energy bars. Not
all carbohydrates work in quite the same way though so a Mars Bar for instance
may have plenty of instant energy in it but it doesn't help in the long run and
the temporary sugar hit may upset your energy levels more.

> 
> And reasonable tasting mixers for hydration systems?

PSP-22 is my favourite although citrus Maxim is quite nice too. Buy it in
powder form from most good bike shops. I find it just ticks me over although
drinking to much of it can upset my stomach. Almost all of the energy drinks
are based on Maltodextrin which takes a while to absorb and provides more
lasting energy. Fruit juices tend to be simple sugars which provide instant
energy but gets used quickly.

Another favourite of mine for when you really are about to collapse is energy
gel. Maxim do a small 100g packet with a cap on it. It's basically glucose
syrup in a squeezy packet and is a real instant energy boost. Not that kind on
your teeth though. Sort of a liquid kendal mint cake.

> 
>  [x-posted to uk.rec.cycling coz 
>  they know about stuff like this]
 

-- 
Shaun
shaun@gofar-mtb.com
http://www.gofar-mtb.com





Subject: Re: OT Desperately seeking Akela
From: Portsmouthdists Scouts (portsmouthdists.scouts@virgin.net)


Andy Crawford wrote

>
>Where??? Scouting? I know two naturist-scout leaders (and I have absolutely
>nothing to do with scouting). I also know of some naturist-walkers. I guess
>that there will be some scout-leaders-into-walking too.
>


If you weren't being a tad aggressive towards Alison, I might add that there
is at least one naturist DC who writes to urs from time to time.

B-b-bitterly cold the sea was at Eastney on Sunday, but the sun was
wonderful.

Jeremy






Subject: Re: Harz mountains
From: Marty (marty@geist.demon.co.uk)

The Brocken is quiet nice. You can either go from Schierke, near to where
you are staying. This is about 10Km's either way. However there is a steam
train that runs to the top, from Schierke. Navigation is straight forward as
there is an access road that runs that way or you can detour through the
woods as well. We did this route on NewYears eve in the dark.

The other main route to the top of the Brocken is from Torfhaus & follows
tracks through the woods, meeting up with the access road close to the top.
This route is about 8Km;'s either way but you will have to walk both ways.

If you are taking a car there are plenty of other places to go walking if
you just want a gentle walk through the woods, as there is not alot of
public transport.

I hope oyu enjoy your holiday, as this is a nice area especially in good
weather.

Marty

<ajkubicki@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8f94cr$26a$1@nnrp1.deja.com...
> We are staying in Wernigerode this summer.  Does anyone wish to
> recommend good walks in the Harz mountain area?
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.






Subject: Online hiking magazine
From: Lou Johnson (walking.britain@nationwideisp.net)

The new edition has just been uploaded.

Try it at http://www.walkingbritain.co.uk

It puts Britain and the World under your feet








Subject: Re: Saunders Tents - Any Good!!!
From: BarberSASA (barbersasa@aol.com)

Hi

We have 2 saunders tents the
Spacepacker and the Triton i think.
They are both very easy and quick to pitch although we haven't managed to do it
in the minimum time as stated on the instructions yet.

We found that they are easier to pitch with 2 people though!! but possible with
one

They are very light weight and very spacious ( my dad can sleep in one and he
is 6 ft something) 

We use ours in the summer mainly but they did stand a gale in the Lakes. 

MOST IMPORTANTLY the midge netting works very well!!

we have 4 seasons worth and they are still going strong

regards

Sue

PS NOT SIMON
Simon Barber,
Nothumberland 

Email:  BarberSASA@aol.com





Subject: Garmin GPS iii+
From: Michael Muir-Browne (michael@camerawork.f9.co.uk)

Anyone knwo a supplier of cheap GPS III +?

cheers

Michael






Subject: Re: Harz mountains
From: Marty (marty@geist.demon.co.uk)

The Brocken is quiet nice. You can either go from Schierke, near to where
you are staying. This is about 10Km's either way. However there is a steam
train that runs to the top, from Schierke. Navigation is straight forward as
there is an access road that runs that way or you can detour through the
woods as well. We did this route on NewYears eve in the dark.

The other main route to the top of the Brocken is from Torfhaus & follows
tracks through the woods, meeting up with the access road close to the top.
This route is about 8Km;'s either way but you will have to walk both ways.

If you are taking a car there are plenty of other places to go walking if
you just want a gentle walk through the woods, as there is not alot of
public transport.

I hope oyu enjoy your holiday, as this is a nice area especially in good
weather.

Marty

<ajkubicki@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8f94cr$26a$1@nnrp1.deja.com...
> We are staying in Wernigerode this summer.  Does anyone wish to
> recommend good walks in the Harz mountain area?
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.






Subject: Re: Repairs
From: BarberSASA (barbersasa@aol.com)

if it is a Karrimore rucksac they do a great service

sue

not simon
Simon Barber,
Nothumberland 

Email:  BarberSASA@aol.com





Subject: Re: OT Desperately seeking Akela
From: Si Jerram (sijerramnospam@ntlworld.com)


Marc&Rachel wrote in message
<1eafe8c.a3w84q1jisaf4N@jaceeprint.demon.co.uk>...
>Si Jerram <sIjerramNOSPAM@ntlworld.com> wrote:


>> I would have tried it out, but forgot my costume.

>Would it have kept you that much warmer?


I should remember whre I'm crossposting to...






Subject: energy bars
From: Peter Hulme (pehulme@callnetuk.com)

can anyone recommend any energy bars to take when walking







Subject: Re: Sorbothane footbeds
From: Neil Tonks (neil@peakwalking.freeserve.co.uk)

"Rob Devereux" <rde@wpo.nerc.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:391926d6.0@news.nwl.ac.uk...

> And C&A have wicking dryflo t-shirts for about 9 a throw at the mo.

And fleeces for 20 quid that are every bit as good as those the outdoor
shops ask 65-70 quid for.

--
Neil Tonks

Peak District website: http://peakwalking.co.uk







Subject: Re: energy bars
From: Neal Milne (neal@njtm.freeservenospam.co.uk)


"Peter Hulme" <pehulme@callnetuk.com> wrote in message
news:3919bce1@eeyore.callnetuk.com...
> can anyone recommend any energy bars to take when walking

Don't bother. They're a rip off and some of them, like power bars, taste
like sh*t.

Have a look round your local supermarket and you'll find stuff like Jordans
Fruesli bars, fig rolls etc that have the same nutritional content as the so
called energy bars but at a fraction of the price.

Neal






Subject: Re: lightweight breathable waterproof jackets
From: Neal Milne (neal@njtm.freeservenospam.co.uk)


"Phil Heather" <Phil-Heather@36haroldstreet.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
message news:8f6tdp$am5$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Hi I'm looking for the most breathable lightweight waterproof jacket
> there is (aren't we all)
> I like Paramo for breathability and waterproof-ness but find it quite
> heavy and hot in summer, and Pertex is great but not exactly
> waterproof
> Any one used Berghaus Pac-lite or other similar 2ply gore-tex?
> How do you measure and compare breathability, and waterproofness
> objectively?
>
> Any advice, recommendations, pointers to good reviews etc would be
> gratefully received!
>
> Yours
> Phil

I use the Sprayway PACS GTX and one of my walking companions uses the
Sprayway Coyote.  We both think they're great. The Goretex used in them is
certainly more breathable than a "normal" weight of jacket and they both
have a superb hood. If you're unfortunate enough to put a hole in it
Sprayway repairs Dept is very good if slightly expensive.

Other jacket that I can recommend as I know someone who uses one is the
Mountain Equipment Skyline. Again a lightweight two-layer Goretex jacket.

Neal








Subject: First Munro?
From: | (planet@myddryn.fsnet.co.uk)

I'm looking to start Munro bagging and was wondering if Ben Wyvis would be a
good one to start with?  It's not far from where I live, I can see it every
day when I'm out and it keeps nagging me to walk up it!!  Any
routes/suggestions?  I have the OS Pathfinder Guide for the area and their
route doesn't seem to bad.  Any hazards I should look out for etc?
Also, I tend to walk alot on my own anyone know of any groups up here
(Inverness/Moray) that go out on a regular basis?
Thanks
Ann






Subject: Re: Wilderness Walks
From: Trevor Dennis (trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk)

Graham Benny writes

> I got edited into about 5 of the shows.

I can remember the shows, but had 
thought that was a mountain goat. ;)

-- 
Trevor Dennis




Subject: Re: Wilderness Walks
From: Trevor Dennis (trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk)

Gordon writes

>From memory, what used to be called Renfrewshire doesn't have
>any Munros. I don't think there is much over 600m. 

I dream of 600m. :(  

-- 
Trevor Dennis
In Essex




Subject: Re: Bivvi- Bags
From: L	 (robert@rmpoole.freeserve.co.uk)

My bivvi-bag is the best piece of kit i have ever had the good fortune to
own, its light to carry, and extremely waterproof (if you get a gore-tex
one) if you want a cheap one you can sometimes find them at army surplus
shops, these are of the same if not better quality than some of the ones
available from specialist shops.

Computing Craigie <computing@craigiehigh1.sol.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8fbd5r$a9$2@phys-ma.sol.co.uk...
> I've never tried a Bivvi-Bag but I am fairly optomistic hows about a
reply?
> Luv Tim
>
>
>






Subject: Re: Cumbria Way details?
From: Mike (cat215@cisnet.com)

Can't help with a website, but the books  ___  'The Cumbria Way' by John
Trevelyan and 'Guide to the Cumbria Way' by Phillip Dubock are very
informative.

Good luck.
Mike

Paul Rose wrote:

> Hi All
>
> Does anyone know of a website containing details of the Cumbria Way
> (route,mileage etc.) ? I've tried a search on the web but the only one I
> found was in German!
> --
> All the best, Paul R
> in Middlesbrough, England, UK.
>
> Researching ROSE in Cleveland, Durham and Suffolk.





Subject: Re: Garmin GPS iii+
From: Mike Coverdale (mike@westhead.net)

"Michael Muir-Browne" <michael@camerawork.f9.co.uk> wrote:

>Anyone knwo a supplier of cheap GPS III +?
>

Don't think there is such a thing as a cheap 
GPS III+   :-(      You could try :- 

	www.21.store.com  or 
	www.scws.com 

Best price I've seen recently is 329 GBP.
-- 

Mike Coverdale, Ormskirk, Lancashire, UK.
Looking for a pair of stainless steel gaiters.




Subject: Re: Haunted Lakeland Fells!
From: Eric Turnbull (eric@meec.demon.co.uk)

In article <39188EB6.4619621B@home.com>, Katherine
<walkbritain@home.com> writes
>Does this fall into Eric's area of interest?  Do all beasties have to
>still be on this side?

Katherine,I believe in things that are real.
Consequently, I believe in you and the Beasties o' the Glen.
Even although I have never met you and I have encountered a Beastie I do
not doubt your existence!
Spirits, or apparitions, of Beasties are an area I shall not dabble in.

Remember........they are out there....................very much alive:-)

 
Eric




Subject: Re: OT Desperately seeking Akela
From: Mike Hopkins (mike@ada-augusta.demon.co.uk)

In article <1eafe8c.a3w84q1jisaf4N@jaceeprint.demon.co.uk>, Marc&Rachel
<home@jaceeprint.demon.co.uk> writes
>Si Jerram <sIjerramNOSPAM@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>> 
>> I would have tried it out, but forgot my costume.
>
>Would it have kept you that much warmer?
>
I doubt it, and probably even colder when he got out.
-- 
Mike Hopkins 
Swim? Naturally at Skin Deep <http://www.ada-augusta.demon.co.uk/brockworth/>




Subject: Re: Garmin GPS iii+
From: Michael Muir-Browne (michael@camerawork.f9.co.uk)

Thansk for the url's I'll give them a try - I was offred one for $300 when i
was in the states - why didn't I buy it :-((









Subject: Re: Garmin GPS iii+
From: Dominic Sexton ({d}@dscs.demon.co.uk)

In article <MYiS4.969$J5.50306@stones>, Michael Muir-Browne
<michael@camerawork.f9.co.uk> writes
>Anyone knwo a supplier of cheap GPS III +?
>
>cheers
>
>Michael
>
>

If you are after the III+ for the maps you may want to look at the eMap
as well. If the maps are not so important (they are not very useful for
walking) then take a look at the 12, eTrex and Magellan 315.

Outdoor shops tend to be overpriced, chandlers / boating suppliers tend
to do the best prices in the UK. The following three seem to have keen
prices at the moment.
                                        III+    eMap
http://www.mesltd.co.uk/                350    185
http://www.yachtpeople.com/             325    195 (222 with 8MB)
http://www.mailspeedmarine.com/         360    NA

-- 

Dominic Sexton
http://www.dscs.demon.co.uk/




Subject: Re: Garmin GPS iii+
From: Michael Muir-Browne (michael@camerawork.f9.co.uk)

cheers


Michael
"Dominic Sexton" <{d}@dscs.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:qsWnZdA5fdG5Ewb+@dscs.demon.co.uk...
> In article <MYiS4.969$J5.50306@stones>, Michael Muir-Browne
> <michael@camerawork.f9.co.uk> writes
> >Anyone knwo a supplier of cheap GPS III +?
> >
> >cheers
> >
> >Michael
> >
> >
>
> If you are after the III+ for the maps you may want to look at the eMap
> as well. If the maps are not so important (they are not very useful for
> walking) then take a look at the 12, eTrex and Magellan 315.
>
> Outdoor shops tend to be overpriced, chandlers / boating suppliers tend
> to do the best prices in the UK. The following three seem to have keen
> prices at the moment.
>                                         III+    eMap
> http://www.mesltd.co.uk/                350    185
> http://www.yachtpeople.com/             325    195 (222 with 8MB)
> http://www.mailspeedmarine.com/         360    NA
>
> --
>
> Dominic Sexton
> http://www.dscs.demon.co.uk/






Subject: Re: Cumbria Way details?
From: Kevin Howell (howell24@howell24.xscreaming.net)

 Books:  The Cumbria Way Anthony Burton, Robb Scott; Paperback
The Cumbria Way and Allerdale Ramble Jim Watson; Hardcover
Cumbria Way Harvey Map Services Ltd; Paperback

Paul Rose <paul@rose159.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8fc999$1jq$3@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> Hi All
>
> Does anyone know of a website containing details of the Cumbria Way
> (route,mileage etc.) ? I've tried a search on the web but the only one I
> found was in German!
> --
> All the best, Paul R
> in Middlesbrough, England, UK.
>
> Researching ROSE in Cleveland, Durham and Suffolk.
>
>
>






Subject: Re: lightweight breathable waterproof jackets
From: David (david@knibbs96.freeserve.co.uk)

Yes,
Got my Crag Hopper, jacket pullover type in Gaynor Sports, Ambleside for
20.  They had all sizes and several colours.  They do mail order as well.
Chuffed to bits with mine - bought my wife one as well - I'm the generous
husband!!

--

David

Share what you know - Learn what you don't






Subject: Boots website updated....only 4 hills left!
From: Jim Willsher (jim@willsher.clara.co.uk)

The Boots Across Scotland website has been updated this evening. We
now only have FOUR hills unbooked in our quest to get all the Munros
"covered" on 28th May. 

Come on, choose a hill and help Boots Across Scotland reach its target
of 100,000.00.

All money raised goes towards promoting mountain safety.


Visit the website at http://www.bootsacrossscotland.org.uk

Many thanks.




Jim Willsher
Boots Across Scotland





Subject: Re: SW France?
From: Adrian Marsh Tupper (adrian.tupper@zetnet.co.uk)

The message <lavaurs-1005001320140001@news>
  from  lavaurs@jonas.univ-lyon1.fr (Pierre Lavaurs) contains these words: 

> Near Carcassonne, I could recommend Montagne d'Alaric (on GR 36, SE of
> Carcassonne) : a last pyrenean hill over the plains. Can be very very
> windy. On clear weather, splendid view on the Pyrnes. If you park your
> canal boat in Argens-Minervois, where GR 77 meets Canal du Midi, it can be
> a day hike to go there and back to your boat.

> Of course many many walks in the Pyrnes (direct small train line
> Carcassonne-Quillan, with good bus connections in Quillan)..

Thanks, Pierre.  Exactly the info I was after.

-- 
Adrian Tupper, Edinburgh
Munro Bagging on the Web
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/adriantupper/mindex.htm





Subject: Re: First Munro?
From: Adrian Marsh Tupper (adrian.tupper@zetnet.co.uk)

The message <8fchgo$p5a$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>
  from  "| " <planet@myddryn.fsnet.co.uk> contains these words: 

> I'm looking to start Munro bagging and was wondering if Ben Wyvis would be a
> good one to start with?

Do it.  I haven't climbed Wyvis myself but I understand it to be one 
of the kinder Munros and it is much visited in the Summer.  If you 
enjoy it then you have many other options - Beinn Dearg or the 
Fisherfield hills nearby.  I am very jealous of your address!

-- 
Adrian Tupper, Edinburgh
Munro Bagging on the Web
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/adriantupper/mindex.htm





Subject: Re: youth hostels in western isles
From: Ken Seaton (kenseaton.nospam@bigfoot.com)


stevew885 <stevew885@netscapeonline.co.uk> wrote in message
news:391721C3.D6A9845@netscapeonline.co.uk...
> has anyone out there been to any of the youth hostels in the western
> isles on the islands of harris and lewis, any info would be most
> grateful.


I stayed in Stockinish, Harris, two years ago and it was excellent. Two
ladies as wardens and they were v.helpful. Beautiful views, but remember to
take your own grub. It's a bit of a hike to Tarbert for the pub, though!

Only bad point was that we'd carried sleeping bags all the way ... only to
discover that the hostel supplied cotton bags and downies.

At the same time, some cyclists warned us off some of the more remote
Gatliff hostels ... said they'd seen rats!

Ken Seaton
Glasgow






Subject: Re: OT Desperately seeking Akela
From: Michael Berridge (michael.berridge@ukgateway.net)


Si Jerram wrote in message <39197920.EA874EA@ntlworld.com>...
>
>I would have tried it out, but forgot my costume.
>
>--
>Simon Jerram   Email:sjerram@ntlworld.com
>Personal home page http://www.telos.clara.co.uk/
>GaSCit 2K 5-9th August 2000, Kibblestone campsite Staffordshire:
>http://www.gascit.jpsonline.com/

As you are x posting to uk.rec.naturism with this comment it is suddenly on
topic. We always forget our costumes LOL.
Mike
8-)#






Subject: Re: OT Desperately seeking Akela
From: Andy Crawford (andy@skyworld.freeserve.co.uk)


Marc <marc@jaceeprint.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> Definately against SA policy then. Browsing a Cub handbook a few weeks
> ago , I came across a description of a a Scout campsite " Make sure your
> shower is screened , after all this is a Scout camp not a nudist camp"
>
So the SA promote body shame eh!

I suspect (and only suspect) that the kids are safer in a nudist camp than a
scout campsite.

AndyC







Subject: Re: OT Desperately seeking Akela
From: Andy Crawford (andy@skyworld.freeserve.co.uk)


Alison <akelali@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8f8g3s$d5a$1@nnrp1.deja.com...

> It was supposed to be light hearted - sorry if I offended you.

To claim that somone is not fit to be a Scout leader because they belong to
a minority group is offensive. To make that claim because they do not have
hang-ups over nudity is absurd

  It was just so funny when reading the first message in this thread seeing
the
> three NGs that had been posted to
> uk.rec.naturist,uk.rec.scouting,uk.rec.walking

So whats so friggin funny? Giggling over nudity is very ,very, immature.
>
> One just desn't expect to see naturist there

Where??? Scouting? I know two naturist-scout leaders (and I have absolutely
nothing to do with scouting). I also know of some naturist-walkers. I guess
that there will be some scout-leaders-into-walking too.

 - sorry - I am not a
> bigot

Alison, you offer an apology but then try to justify your bigotry!

AndyC






Subject: Re: OT Desperately seeking Akela
From: Andy Crawford (andy@skyworld.freeserve.co.uk)


Alison <akelali@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8f7cu6$6if$1@nnrp1.deja.com...
>
> I really think that anybody who enjoys beibg naked whenever they have
> the chance should NOT be a leader!

Alison,

Why not?

I'd be more concerened about people that claim that nudity is wrong. The
nudists ain't got nuffink to hide!

AndyC






Subject: Re: energy bars
From: Ann Bowker (bowker@keswick.u-net.com)


Neal Milne <neal@njtm.freeservenospam.co.uk> >
> Have a look round your local supermarket and you'll find stuff like
Jordans
> Fruesli bars, fig rolls etc that have the same nutritional content as the
so
> called energy bars but at a fraction of the price.
>
Try Ma Baker's Giant Bars which come in assorted delicious flavours.
You can get them at health food shops and the like. Often 65p but Sundance
in the middle of Keswick sell them for 50p and if they're out of stock it's
probably because I've bought the lot :-)
--
Ann Bowker
http://www.keswick.u-net.com  ^^mad about mountains^^







Subject: Re: First Munro?
From: Paul Simonite (stationhouse@zetnet.co.uk)

The message <8fchgo$p5a$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>
  from  "| " <planet@myddryn.fsnet.co.uk> contains these words: 

> I tend to walk alot on my own anyone know of any groups up here
> (Inverness/Moray) that go out on a regular basis?
> Thanks
> Ann


I met a bunch of Inverness Post Office workers on Beinn Alligin 
(Torridon) a few years ago.  Try asking at the sorting office.  Some 
of the Caithness Mountain and Ski club live in Inverness too.

Ben Wyvis is a good mountain to begin on but try and pick one of 
those rare days when you can see where you are going.  Wyvis is 
usually covered in cloud when I'm down your way.  You will need OS 
1:50,000 map No.20  Park at GR NH412674 just before Garbat on the 
A835 and follow the muddy path up the glen.

The Northern Cairngorms, Fannaichs, Beinn Dearg group, Drumochter 
group, Monadhliaths, Torridon, Glen Cannich, Glen Affric and Glen 
Strathfarrar are all reasonably easily accessed as day trips from 
Inverness too.
-- 
Cheers,

Compo in Caithness

Oh no! It's TOWRIST season again :(





Subject: Re: First Munro?
From: H
 (planet@myddryn.fsnet.co.uk)


> Do it.  I haven't climbed Wyvis myself but I understand it to be one
> of the kinder Munros and it is much visited in the Summer.  If you
> enjoy it then you have many other options - Beinn Dearg or the
> Fisherfield hills nearby.  I am very jealous of your address!
Don't be.  It's full of caravans, ignorant tourists and the like
already!!:o(
>
> --
> Adrian Tupper, Edinburgh
> Munro Bagging on the Web
> http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/adriantupper/mindex.htm
>






Subject: Re: Garmin GPS iii+
From: Michael Muir-Browne (michael@camerawork.f9.co.uk)

> http://www.yachtpeople.com/             325    195


order now placed with yachtpeople

cheers

Michael






Subject: Re: Saunders Tents - Any Good!!!
From: ajkubicki@my-deja.com (ajkubicki@my-deja.com)

We have used Spacepackers for 8 years now, starting with one to
accomodate 2 adults and a child and moving on to 2 once Matthew was 10
and space was getting tight.

They are excellent in the summer as ventilation is multi-facetted.
We have also come through snow, hail and heavy rain unscathed.
Last summer we returned to a tent sitting in 6 inches of water;
it was quickly and easily moved, repitched and dried out very
fast.  I would strongly recommend a plastic sheet is used as
protection under the thinner groundsheet (we use our bivi bag!.

Storage capacity under the flysheet is phenomenal.  Pitching is easy but
it helps to have someone hold the ridge while the 2 main side-guys are
pegged out.  Weight wise, I'd say they were excellent - we backpack over
3 weeks each summer with the 2 tents.
>
>


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.




Subject: Re: Saunders Tents - Any Good!!!
From: Peter Clinch (p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk)

Tim Thompson wrote:
> 
> I am looking for a two man light weight backing tent. After a few people
> mentioned Saunders on the news group I thought I'd look at the website
> (www.robertsaunders.co.uk). I was impressed by the Jetpacker plus which is
> so light it could be used as a one man tent.

Jetpackers are great where light is the key, but personally I prefer
something with more usable space, so the Spacepacker wins it for me. 
Each occupant has their own (large) porch and a choice of exits, and
room to sit up.  This is not true of the JP+, and it's only a little
heavier too.

Spacepacker is fine for two as long as neither is especially tall (say
over 5'10": have shared one with a 6'8" friend, but it wouldn't be fun
long term!).  For larger folk, or more comfort generally, the SP+ is
probably a better bet.  Looking at their specs on the page, I think
they've misprinted the weights on the Spacepackers, as the Mk1 was
originally quoted as 1800g (mine is, near as dammit), while the original
flyer I had on the Mk 2 said it was a bit heavier.  Ought to send them
an email to check, I suppose.

Pete.
-- 
Peter Clinch			University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637	Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177		Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk	http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/




Subject: Re: Culinary expertise required!
From: rob (rnaylor@ensoco.uk.com)


Chris wrote in message ...
>very impressive and sounds delicious, ever thought of doing a tele
>series?
>Howabout "The Naked Trekker"
>from one who's culinary expertise is open a can or packet


I'm open to offers!

Rob






Subject: Re: Saunders Tents - Any Good!!!
From: adshead@my-deja.com (adshead@my-deja.com)

Recently bought a Jetpacker Plus and used it on a 6 day Scottish walk.
Very light, easy for 1 person to pitch (tho it remains to be seen what
will happen in high winds before those two unconnected poles are given
some tension). Resistance to very foul weather yet to be seen also


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.




Subject: Re: OT Desperately seeking Akela
From: Gordon Harris (gordon@g3snx.demon.co.uk)

In article <8fdket$p10$3@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>, Andy Crawford <Andy@Skywo
rld.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>
>Marc <marc@jaceeprint.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>>
>> Definately against SA policy then. Browsing a Cub handbook a few weeks
>> ago , I came across a description of a a Scout campsite " Make sure your
>> shower is screened , after all this is a Scout camp not a nudist camp"
>>
>So the SA promote body shame eh!
>
No.  But they have to satisfy the textile(?) parents that their children
are being treated with respect. 

>I suspect (and only suspect) that the kids are safer in a nudist camp than a
>scout campsite.
>
That may well be true (I suspect, and only suspect), mainly because in a
nudist camp the children's parents would, under normal circumstances, be
present, and keeping an eye on their kids, especially in the pool etc.

The danger in the Scout movement, and in other similar situations
(children's homes, etc), is that pedophiles are often attracted by the
opportunities presented in these situations where the supervisors have
the power of surrogate parenthood.

I certainly think naturist beaches are the safest place for young women
to be able to go alone without the usual yob harassment of many holiday
beaches, having observed this at first hand, but minors have to be
protected. 
-- 
Gordon





Subject: Re: Harz mountains
From: Chris Crocker (chris@crocker.org)

Get the Cicerone guide "Walking in the Harz Mountains".  It's the only
English language guidebook I think, and up to Cicerone's usual high
standard.  We spent a week there last year, renting a flat in
Wernigerode.

The walking is pleasant if unspectacular - more interesting for the
places you go through.  The Brockenbahn is impressive, though the
Brocken extension spoils the summit, as with Snowdon.  e-mail me if you
want specific recommendations.

Chris


In article <8f94cr$26a$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, ajkubicki@my-deja.com writes
>We are staying in Wernigerode this summer.  Does anyone wish to
>recommend good walks in the Harz mountain area?
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Before you buy.

 




Subject: Re: Advice & information please - Lake District Walking
From: Michael Farthing (mf@cyclades.demon.co.uk)

In article <39199621.0@news.netdirect.net.uk>
           matti@polka.bikini "Matti Lamprhey" writes:

> "Michael Farthing" <mf@cyclades.demon.co.uk> wrote...
> > [...]
> >    Note that after the descents described above between Harrison and Loft,
> >    you are really committed to Stake Pass.
> 
> Not so -- there's a long-established zigzag track coming down the western
> side of Troughton Beck which is handy if you want to take in Pike o' Stickle
> without the slog over to the top of Stake.  AW promotes it on p4 of his P o'
> S chapter and includes it as a main route in one of his coffee-table books
> of best LD walks.

I stand corrected!
I suppose that my long ago experience of Stickle Breast has blinded me
to any possibilitites thereabouts.  Looks like an interesting route.
However, in some attempt at face-saving bitchiness I shall quote AW
Pike O'Stickle Page 7: "The route via Troughton Beck has no merits in
descent" - though he doesn't explain why and I have to say that I'm
frequently not in agreement with his aesthetic judgements.

-- 
Michael Farthing
cyclades
software house





Subject: Re: LINUX (was NEW VIRUS ALERT)
From: Jim Wallis (jim.wallis@cableinet.co.uk)

PRAR wrote:
> 
> And lo, Jim Wallis <Jim.Wallis@cableinet.co.uk> spake unto
> us all announcing
> 
> |Michiel Verhoef wrote:
> |>
> |> Nothing, as it is a VB script. Not sure about Netscape but judging from
> |> the code
> |> it looks for M$ IE temp directories etc.
> |>
> |> Yep, Linux rules!
> |>
> |
> |I've never really done much scripting, and haven't looked into this, but
> |surely there must be a port of visual basic and VB scripting to Linux by
> |now?
> 
> I can't see M$ porting Visual Basic to anything.

Don't Borland do a VB kit as well - they've ported some of their C/C++
stuff to linux I think.

Anyway I thought MS was looking into using Linux as the base of a future
OS (presumably if they can ride roughshod over the GPL!), in which case
there are probably ports already in use within the corporation - doesn't
really bear thinking about does it?

JIM
> |
> |However someone wrote that it was the windows addressbook (presumably
> |the default one) that was affected - I'm sure Linux doesn't have a
> |windows addressbook - so the virus (or trojan) would not be able to
> |propogate itself. It would also struggle to invoke sufficient priviliges
> |to do much damage to files either.
> |
> |JIM
> 
> PRAR
> --
> http://www.i.am/prar/
> Confucius say 'New defect book repair all known defects'!




Subject: Re: First Munro?
From: Graham Benny (cnbs96@cc.sun.strath.ac.uk)

| wrote:
> 
> I'm looking to start Munro bagging and was wondering if Ben Wyvis would be a
> good one to start with?  It's not far from where I live, I can see it every
> day when I'm out and it keeps nagging me to walk up it!!  Any
> routes/suggestions?  I have the OS Pathfinder Guide for the area and their
> route doesn't seem to bad.  Any hazards I should look out for etc?
> 
It's as good as any to start with. Not sure what the route given is but
the most popular starts on the Garve - Ullapool road about 500m before
Garbat farm and follows a muddy track beside the burn to the top of the
forestry then heads up over An Cabar to the summit. Only cautions would
be that the upper slopes of An Cabar are steep and stony but OK with
care and on the summit plateau good navigation skills may be required -
see my earlier posting in the Lost Souls thread about my mate (an
experienced mountaineer!) who ended up in Contin by mistake.

> Also, I tend to walk alot on my own anyone know of any groups up here
> (Inverness/Moray) that go out on a regular basis?
> 
AFAIK there are several clubs in your area. best bet would be to contact
The MCofS at
The Mountaineering Council of Scotland, 4A St Catherine's Rd, Perth, PH1
5SE
tel. 01738 638227 fax. 01738 442095
http://www.mountaineering-scotland.org.uk/

HTH
Graham                    
-- 
Anti-Spam e-mail address modification in operation!
Extra '.' included - leave you to work out which one to remove.




Subject: Re: Wilderness Walks
From: Graham Benny (cnbs96@cc.sun.strath.ac.uk)

The Ferret wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 09 May 2000 11:59:23 +0100, Graham Benny
> <cnbs96@cc.sun.strath.ac.uk> wrote:
> 
> >I would suspect it is Clackmannanshire - the Wee County - since it is so
> >small there is probably no room for a sizeable hill.
> 
>         The whole of the Southern escarpment of the Ochil Hills and quite
> a bit of the plateau beyond it lies within Clackmannanshire, and it
> rises from nothing to 1,500 ft in about half a kilometre. The highest
> point in Clackmannanshire is Ben Cleuch (2,332 ft). The Ochils account
> for about a third of the county.
> 
Oops. My fingers hit the keyboard before I had checked the boundaries. I
had assumed that the Ochils were shared between Stirling and Perth. I
forgot that the Hillfoots were in Clackmannanshire and that the boundary
would be up on the hills somewhere.
I'll go and lurk for a while as a penance.

Graham
-- 
Anti-Spam e-mail address modification in operation!
Extra '.' included - leave you to work out which one to remove.




Subject: Re: Bivvi- Bags
From: Guy Austin (guy.austin@unn.ac.uk)


"Computing Craigie" <computing@craigiehigh1.sol.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8fbd5r$a9$2@phys-ma.sol.co.uk...
> I've never tried a Bivvi-Bag but I am fairly optomistic hows about a
reply?
> Luv Tim
I've had a bivvi-bag for 15 years and i've never tried it. But I'm fairly
pessimistic






Subject: Book recommendation please
From: Debbie Lampon (lampond@logica.com)

I'm looking for a walking guide book for the UK - which includes the South
Downs Way, Lake District and other well known areas. I'm a novice, so walks
that are a few miles rather than the cross country type. If anyone can
recommend a good book, I'd be most grateful

Debbie Lampon






Subject: Re: Bivvi- Bags
From: Strider (strider@walkse.ezesurf.co.uk)

On 11 May 2000 guy.austin@unn.ac.uk (Guy Austin) happily wrote in 
uk.rec.walking :

>"Computing Craigie" <computing@craigiehigh1.sol.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:8fbd5r$a9$2@phys-ma.sol.co.uk...
>> I've never tried a Bivvi-Bag but I am fairly optomistic hows about a
>reply?
>> Luv Tim
>I've had a bivvi-bag for 15 years and i've never tried it. But I'm fairly
>pessimistic
>
>
>

Mines great for keeping the sarnies dry :-)
-- 
Strider

<<<<DOH!>>>>




Subject: Re: OT Desperately seeking Akela
From: Derek Biddle (derek@pinnacleprojects.demon.co.uk)

In article <8fdkeu$p10$4@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>, Andy Crawford <Andy@Skywo
rld.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>
>Alison <akelali@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>news:8f8g3s$d5a$1@nnrp1.deja.com...
>
>> It was supposed to be light hearted - sorry if I offended you.
>
>To claim that somone is not fit to be a Scout leader because they belong to
>a minority group is offensive. To make that claim because they do not have
>hang-ups over nudity is absurd
>
>  It was just so funny when reading the first message in this thread seeing
>the
>> three NGs that had been posted to
>> uk.rec.naturist,uk.rec.scouting,uk.rec.walking
>
>So whats so friggin funny? Giggling over nudity is very ,very, immature.
>>
>> One just desn't expect to see naturist there
>
>Where??? Scouting? I know two naturist-scout leaders (and I have absolutely
>nothing to do with scouting). I also know of some naturist-walkers. I guess
>that there will be some scout-leaders-into-walking too.
>
> - sorry - I am not a
>> bigot
>
>Alison, you offer an apology but then try to justify your bigotry!
>
>AndyC
>
>

Please consider how offensive it is to other Scout Leaders to say in
effect that 'kids' (or YP) are safer with naturists than Scout Leaders.

Isn't that just a tad kettles and pots?





-- 
Derek Biddle




Subject: Re: OT Desperately seeking Akela
From: Derek Biddle (derek@pinnacleprojects.demon.co.uk)

In article <8fdkes$p10$2@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>, Andy Crawford <Andy@Skywo
rld.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>
>Alison <akelali@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>news:8f7cu6$6if$1@nnrp1.deja.com...
>>
>> I really think that anybody who enjoys beibg naked whenever they have
>> the chance should NOT be a leader!
>
>Alison,
>
>Why not?
>
>I'd be more concerened about people that claim that nudity is wrong. The
>nudists ain't got nuffink to hide!
>
>AndyC
>
>
well they cerainly haven't got anywhere to hide it, unless it is an
intention, when they are no different to anyone else.

It is irrelevant whether anyone thinks that nudity is wrong or right, it
is a personal choice for an adult, or for the parents of a child.

CHoose what you want for you and your children and let others choose for
themselves and their children. In Scouting, we cannot make the choice
for other people's children.

-- 
Derek Biddle




Subject: Re: OT Desperately seeking Akela
From: Derek Biddle (derek@pinnacleprojects.demon.co.uk)

In article <8fdket$p10$3@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>, Andy Crawford <Andy@Skywo
rld.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>
>Marc <marc@jaceeprint.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>>
>> Definately against SA policy then. Browsing a Cub handbook a few weeks
>> ago , I came across a description of a a Scout campsite " Make sure your
>> shower is screened , after all this is a Scout camp not a nudist camp"
>>
>So the SA promote body shame eh!
>
>I suspect (and only suspect) that the kids are safer in a nudist camp than a
>scout campsite.
>
>AndyC
>
>
I guess that you have come from the naturist part of the cross-posting
of this.

The kids (or YP) have chosen to join Scouts, and we have no right to
make decisions on their behalf to take them to a nudist camp, or to turn
our own sites into them.

I can understand that naturists get a more than a bit annoyed at
generalisations and stereotypes that some people have of them, in the
same way as homosexuals do, as often expressed by Stonewall. There is no
reason to ascribe actions and motives that a minority of homosexuals and
naturists do have to every one of them.

There is likewise is no reason for those people to try to stereo type
people invovled in Scouting as being a less safe option for the children
involved in Scouting. This is the effect of saying that YP are 'safer'
with themselves than with a Scout Leader.

Of course, if it is because the 'kids' (or YP) would actually be doing
something adventurous and making their own decisions at a Scout Camp
then you are probably right, after all things can only go wrong when you
are doing something.



>

-- 
Derek Biddle




Subject: Re: OT Desperately seeking Akela
From: Marc (marc@jaceeprint.demon.co.uk)

Derek Biddle <Derek@pinnacleprojects.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> The kids (or YP) have chosen to join Scouts, and we have no right to
> make decisions on their behalf to take them to a nudist camp, or to turn
> our own sites into them.

This instruction was aimed at the YP, not at those organising  the
sites. It is implanting in the YP that there is something to be ashamed
of .

>" Make sure your
>> shower is screened , after all this is a Scout camp not a nudist
camp"



-- 
Marc
Printing for Motorsport,car clubs,sports clubs and societies
http://www.jaceeprint.demon.co.uk/JACEE%20MOTORSPORTS%20page.html




Subject: Re: First Munro?
From: David Springthorpe (dspringy@one.net.au)

>I met a bunch of Inverness Post Office workers on Beinn Alligin 
>(Torridon) a few years ago.  Try asking at the sorting office.

They should sort you out.....and there may be a couple of good sorts
amongst them, unless they're all mail.....it could be your red letter
day.....




Subject: Re: OT Desperately seeking Akela
From: Alison (akelali@my-deja.com)


> So whats so friggin funny? Giggling over nudity is very ,very,
immature.

Which of the scout laws says I have be mature?  I enjoy giggling its
better than droning on and on after someone has made a sincere apology.

> Alison, you offer an apology but then try to justify your bigotry!
>
Chill out man!

Alison
CSL


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.




Subject: Aran Fawddwy
From: N R Whitelegg (bssnrw@bath.ac.uk)

Hello,

My mum is thinking of climbing this mountain with a friend (using the 
'popular' route).

Can anyone give any advice on how it compares to the following w.r.t.
hazards, strenuousness, ease of path etc? (These are some mountain
ascents I have done)

- Snowdon (Pyg track)
- ditto (Watkin path)
- Coniston Old Man from the village
- Bowfell from Old Dungeon Ghyll, via the Band
- Great Gable from Wasdale Head via the pass between it and Kirk Fell

Thanks,
Nick W 

--

Web pages: all www.bath.ac.uk/~bssnrw/...
Home Page: home.html
Poptastic! : poptastic.html
"An English Walk" : walk.html
The Giant Hogweed Homepage: hogweed.html




Subject: Of pots and kettles (was: OT Desperately seeking Akela)
From: Mike Hopkins (mike@ada-augusta.demon.co.uk)

In article <8fdkeu$p10$4@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>, Andy Crawford <Andy@Skywo
rld.freeserve.co.uk> exhibits a considerable measure of his own form of
anti-textile bigotry when making accusations of bigotry against Alison
<akelali@my-deja.com>.

OK, Alison forgot the smiley. But she apologised and Kris had the
courtesy to make the traditional u.r.n offering from 
<http://www.jaceeprint.demon.co.uk/DELURK.html>. IMO, to flame someone
when they attempt to offer an excuse with their apology is, at the very
least, uncharitable.

I think that its now Andy's turn to apologise.

-- 
Mike Hopkins 
Swim? Naturally at Skin Deep <http://www.ada-augusta.demon.co.uk/brockworth/>




Subject: Re: OS Grid & LandRanger grids
From: Paul Saunders (pvs1@wildwales.fsnet.co.uk)

On Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:54:37 +0100, "rfc" <phantom@POBoxes.com> wrote:

>>I had not realised there was a difference... where can I find some simple
>>info to help me understand the different grid systems?  I want to work with
>>a map and gps, and don't think I can manage Lat/Long!!

Jim Willsher replied;

>To work with a map and a GPS all you need to do is set your GPS to us
>the OSGB grid system. That way your position will match your map
>reference,   <snip>

Actually there are two settings on a GPS that need to be changed;

1)  Position Format - BNG (British National Grid)
2)  Map Datum - OSGB (Ordnance Survey Great Britain)

If you only change the Map Datum,  your position will be displayed as
Lat/Long, which is the default.

If you only change the Position Format, all your grid references will
be incorrect.

Paul Saunders




Subject: Re: Saunders Tents - Any Good!!!
From: Paul Saunders (pvs1@wildwales.fsnet.co.uk)

On Wed, 10 May 2000 18:03:44 +0100, "Tim Thompson"
<timthompson@tiltcomputing.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

>I am looking for a two man light weight backing tent. After a few people
>mentioned Saunders on the news group I thought I'd look at the website
>(www.robertsaunders.co.uk). I was impressed by the Jetpacker plus which is
>so light it could be used as a one man tent.
>
>What I need to know is, has anyone used this make of tent and whether they
>recommend them? Can they be used all year round? Are they easy to pitch?
>etc.
>
>Any information would be appreciated.
>
>Thanks
>
>
>
My brother used to own a Jetpacker (I don't know what the difference
between that and the Plus is) and then sold it to my nephew.  Neither
of them were terribly impressed with the small size, they both found
it very cramped and ended up buying bigger tents.

They've both used it all year round but they didn't enjoy being stuck
inside it during bad weather or long winter nights.

It did look easy to pitch.

Verdict (as an observer):  Good for short summer nights in good
weather, i.e. ideal for sleeping in, but you wouldn't want to live in
one.
Paul Saunders




Subject: Re: Wilderness Walks
From: Paul Saunders (pvs1@wildwales.fsnet.co.uk)

On Wed, 10 May 2000 09:58:54 +0100, Roger Chapman
<r.chapman@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:

>The message <8f8hd0$qin$1@news.ox.ac.uk>
>  from  Gordon.Riddell@comlab.ox.ac.uk contains these words: 
>
>> In <2000050820054469453@zetnet.co.uk>, Adrian Marsh Tupper <adrian.tupper@zetnet.co.uk> writes:
>> >
>> >I wonder what the flattest Scottish county is?
>
>Looking at my invaluable old school atlas it would appear to be a 
>toss-up between Caithness in the far Northeast and Wigtown in the far 
>Southwest both of which have at least 75% below 600'.

Sorry to be pedantic, but no one has yet bothered to point out that
flatness has nothing to do with height.  The Tibetan Plateau is
probably flatter than Scotland in spite of all of it being
considerably higher than Ben Nevis.

What you should be looking at is the general steepness of slopes in an
area rather than the highest summits.

Many valleys in Mid-Wales are hemmed in by exceedingly steep slopes,
in spite of the tops being flattish and of no great height.  It may
well outrank other areas of greater height in terms of overall
steepness.

Paul Saunders




Subject: GPS routes/software
From: Guy Austin (guy.austin@unn.ac.uk)

I'm sure regulars here will be fed up with this topic but as I'm new here...
What is the recommended method/software that I should use to program my
Garmin eTrex . Thanks






Subject: Re: Saunders Tents - Any Good!!!
From: Peter Clinch (p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk)

Paul Saunders wrote:

> My brother used to own a Jetpacker (I don't know what the difference
> between that and the Plus is) 

The Plus is wider and higher, designed for two man occupation

> Verdict (as an observer):  Good for short summer nights in good
> weather, i.e. ideal for sleeping in, but you wouldn't want to live in
> one.

I'd say that's fair.  When you want light weight at the expense of
comfort, very good tents, but I like my comfort and the weight
compromise isn't *that* big.

Pete.
-- 
Peter Clinch			University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637	Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177		Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk	http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/




Subject: Re: Bivvy Bags vs. 1 man tent.
From: Jon Doran (jon@nozzer.demon.co.uk)

In article <8erfar$e3g$1@gxsn.com>,
"Stuart Blackwell" <stuart@studiodm.co.uk> waffled rather dreamily that:

>
>
>I'm looking for a lightweight option for an overnight shelter in mild
>conditions.  Whilst I appreciate the obvious advantages of a one man tent
>like the Terra Nova Solar One, I am quite taken by the idea of a 'bivvy
>bag', it being both compact and lightweight.  Ignoring the orange bin bag
>used in emergencies I'm considering a Goretext clad bag (a simple cover for
>a sleeping bag) or perhaps the more sophisticated model which looks like a
>long narrow tent with a single hoop at the head end.
>
>Does anyone have any experiences of these (like falling over one in the dark
>and impaling the occupant with your pole) and can you suggest a decent
>supplier?
>

They work brilliantly at high altitudes where the air's cold and thin and
they breathe properly but are a pain in the arse in wet UK conditions,
especially when it comes to getting out and repacking your sleeping bag
without getting it soaked. For UK use I'd bite the bullet and go for the
tent option. It'll weigh more, but the added comfort'll be worth it.

Jon






Subject: Re: Craghopper DB Rucksack
From: Jon Doran (jon@nozzer.demon.co.uk)

In article <8f3crq$eb8$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>,
"David" <david@knibbs96.freeserve.co.uk> waffled rather dreamily that:


>
>Bought a Craghopper DB TT35l Rucksack yesterday, and whilst I tried it on
>and got it adjusted in the shop for fitting, when i got home, I adjusted all
>the straps (like you do) then realised that I'd lost the manual giving
>guidance for fitting.
>Can anyone take me through the process of which straps to fit and adjust
>first and in which order thereafter.
>Thanks
>
Crags suggest it goes like this:

1. Slacken off all the straps and make sure hipbelt is comfortably over the
hip

2. Tighten lower tensioner straps at sides of the hipbelt - the tighter
they are, the more the sack'll hug the body

3. Adjust the shoulder straps to suit

4. Adjusting the top tension straps will pull the sack closer to the body
and stabilise the load (it says)

5. Fasten sternum strap to suit

Hope that's some help. Good sacks, you really notice the Flo Motion gizmo
if oyu try wearing a normal sack.

Jon






Subject: Re: Of pots and kettles (was: OT Desperately seeking Akela)
From: Kris (usenet8.autumn@nospam.demon.co.uk)

"Andy Crawford" <Andy@Skyworld.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

>So whats so friggin funny? Giggling over nudity is very ,very, immature.

Calm down Andy - we're in a friendly crosspost - not our clothes
optional sandpit.   :-)

I always think of a crosspost being a bit like setting up a stall at
the local Fete - you are on your friendliest behaviour to encourage
people to sample your wares. If they are interested further then they
will eventually find out more about the possible bureaucracy and
faction fighting that is a reality, below the surface,  of any human
"club".

Crossposts allow an exchange of views but it behoves everyone to keep
it on a diplomatic level.

Any "organisation" that allows young people to meet others from
different backgrounds - do something active - and to be challenged to
think for themselves - is a good thing in my book. 

The Scout movement has an obvious long history of providing such an
environment - but so has the "naturist" movement in both its
historical and modern incarnations.
-- 
"The more I know - the more I know I don't know"




Subject: Re: Bivvi- Bags
From: BOB WATKINSON (bob@bwatkinson.freeserve.co.uk)

Mine does. Every time I snuggle into it it tells me I haven't washed it in 7
years


John Pennifold wrote in message <8fbfr3$4ul$1@taliesin2.netcom.net.uk>...
>Bivvi bags never reply. Not even if you shout at them.
>
>






Subject: Re: NEW VIRUS ALERT
From: Jim Wallis (jim.wallis@cableinet.co.uk)

Robert Metcalf wrote:
> 
> I think all in all, this shows one fatal flaw in Microsoft Outlook express,
> the best email & newsreading program around today. (This is my opinion, and
> I am awear others have diffrent ones, please lets not start a thread trying
> to convince me that outlook is not, cos I won't even read it.)
> Can I suggest that others as I have done, goto the microsoft web site and
> supply a comment using their program sugestion service observing this point.
> I suggested to them that they may like to include a virus security wizard in
> future versions that configires outlook, not to let any internet code
> anywhere near the processor, as well as turning on a warning every time you
> open attachment explaning the risks involved with passing data from the
> internet to another program.
> 
> Prehaps if a few ppl do this we may actually see this type of virus
> obsoulte.

WTF?????

JIM




Subject: Re: Book recommendation please
From: pjmac (h.macguire@virgin.net)


Debbie Lampon <lampond@logica.com> wrote in message
news:958048323.499285@ernani.logica.co.uk...
> I'm looking for a walking guide book for the UK - which includes the South
> Downs Way, Lake District and other well known areas. I'm a novice, so
walks
> that are a few miles rather than the cross country type. If anyone can
> recommend a good book, I'd be most grateful
>
> Debbie Lampon
>

Certainly, IMO, for the Lakes you can't do better than "Short Walks in
Lakeland" by Aileen and Brian Evans. It's published by Cicerone Press in two
volumes, Lakeland North and Lakeland South.  Really nice.

Regards

Pat Macguire
>






Subject: Re: NEW VIRUS ALERT
From: Jim Wallis (jim.wallis@cableinet.co.uk)

Derek Biddle wrote:
> 
> In article <3916FBC3.11333C75@cableinet.co.uk>, Jim Wallis
> <Jim.Wallis@cableinet.co.uk> writes
> >Ian G Batten wrote:
> >>
> >>
> <snip>
> >Not sure about the situation since we were merged, but previously our IT
> >department told us not to use Access because they couldn't support it,
> >and stopped installing it on new machines!
> >
> 
> I wouldn't mind betting that they could support Access but not the
> hordes of people who would all want to have their own copies of data
> that should be corporate, and with strange ideas about data integrity.
> 
> One Local Authority where I did a contract with had people in finance
> with their own 'personnel' databases 'because Personnel's data was
> always wrong' Others had several 'copies' of the same data used for
> different purposes. Even one IT department programmer had set up a
> database system where the user could overwrite foreign key data when
> they opened a form.
> 

They claim they don't have the training/resource (we have 1 NT
administrator).
That said we have a database that we subscribe to for general
shipbuilding info, and that uses Access - we just use it unsupported,
and because we don't have to change anything, just search and print
records no-one minds. In fact I install the updates whenever they
arrive!
The main company database is in Oracle on a unix platform via telnet. It
has 1 administrator also! Did I mention that we have 1 cad administrator
handling both Unix and NT based Cad? and that just about sums up our IT
dept. (things are changing now we're part of a bigger group). If anyone
can actually put a record into the oracle system successfully they have
a party - there is little question of messing around with the way it
works!

JIM




Subject: Re: Book recommendation please
From: Strider (strider@walkse.ezesurf.co.uk)

On 11 May 2000 h.macguire@virgin.net (pjmac) happily wrote in
uk.rec.walking : 

>Certainly, IMO, for the Lakes you can't do better than "Short Walks in
>Lakeland" by Aileen and Brian Evans. It's published by Cicerone Press in
>two volumes, Lakeland North and Lakeland South.  Really nice.

...and for down south you may care to look at my website:
http://www.walkse.mcmail.com/

-- 
Strider

<<<<DOH!>>>>




Subject: Re: OT Desperately seeking Akela
From: Andy Crawford (andy@skyworld.freeserve.co.uk)


Gordon Harris <gordon@g3snx.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> >>
> >So the SA promote body shame eh!
> >
> No.  But they have to satisfy the textile(?) parents that their children
> are being treated with respect.
>
Understandably, but it seems that the wishes of the textile (thats a nudist
term for people that are compelled to wear clothing for fear of being seen,
and often expect others to aswell) are respected by default.

If parents demand that their children are sheilded from seeing another human
being then they should make it known. In the same way that I have informed
my kids school that we are vegetarian.

The original point was "this is a Scout camp not a nudist camp"

AndyC








Subject: Re: NEW VIRUS ALERT
From: Matt Wetherill (m.weth@zetnet.co.uk)

Jim Wallis <Jim.Wallis@cableinet.co.uk> wrote
> Robert Metcalf wrote:
> >
> > I think all in all, this shows one fatal flaw in Microsoft Outlook
express,
> > the best email & newsreading program around today
<big snip >
> > Prehaps if a few ppl do this we may actually see this type of virus
> > obsoulte.
>
> WTF?????
>
> JIM

My thoughts exactly

Matt






Subject: Re: GPS & selective availability
From: Trevor Dennis (trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk)

Paul Saunders writes

>1)  Poor signal reception through certain sections.  Any high
>buildings around?  But if that is the case you'd probably get
>different readings each time.
>
>2)  Maybe the map IS wrong.  I seem to remember Graham saying
>something about relative accuracy rather than absolute accuracy.  We
>may have finally reached the long awaited moment when our position is
>more accurate than the map!  If this is indeed the case, no wonder
>they didn't want to switch SA off.

Sorry to have abandoned this thread, but I feel I should
get additional data before expressing further opinions
on OS map accuracy. The road in question is dual carriageway,
and very busy, so I can't stop and take an averaged WP.

If I don't hit a convenient traffic jamb - oh, the irony -
soon, I'll take a detour and get the WP from a bridge that
crosses the road in question.

-- 
Trevor Dennis




Subject: Re: energy bars
From: Trevor Dennis (trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk)

Peter Hulme writes

>can anyone recommend any energy bars to take when walking

And reasonable tasting mixers for hydration systems?

 [x-posted to uk.rec.cycling coz 
 they know about stuff like this]

-- 
Trevor Dennis




Subject: Re: Online hiking magazine
From: Trevor Dennis (trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk)

Lou Johnson writes yet again

>Try it at http://www.walkingbritain.co.uk

>It puts Britain and the World under your feet

And we *keep* on tripping over it.

-- 
Trevor Dennis




Subject: Re: love
From: Trevor Dennis (trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk)

paul shoreman writes

>Does anyone know of walking groups for single people in north west
>England...............Paul "37" The Ranger on Pendle hill. any girls
>interested?

Try the 'Trail Mates' classifieds 
in the back of Trail magazine.

-- 
Trevor Dennis




Subject: Re: Snowdonia - Book Recommendation
From: Trevor Dennis (trevor@tdennis.demon.co.uk)

Richard Webb writes

>Probably is but I cannot accurately describe it here.. so be warned
>the following is from hazy memory
>
>Its about the place where there is a platform, above which the ridge
>rears up much narrower than before,
>
>A clue, if the going is difficult at first , then you are in the wrong
>place, the scrambling is at the end.

Thanks Richard. It might be visible from the other side
of the road through binoculars. Trouble being it never
looks the same when you get there.

>just nose about on a clear day and you will find it

Hmmm.  I seem to have been remarkably lucky, all in all,
with the weather on my trips to Snowdonia. Except, for 
some reason, when doing Tryfan. :(

-- 
Trevor Dennis




Subject: Re: Aran Fawddwy
From: Mal DDD (malddd@aol.comnospam)

>
>- Snowdon (Pyg track)
>- ditto (Watkin path)

Probably not as exerting as these two. I'm assuming you mean to do the main
ridge either from Dinas Mawddwy or Llanuwchllyn.

The DM end is quite stiff to start with, then boggy, but once on the ridge, not
a problem- even in mist you have a fence, duckboards etc.

>From Llanuwchllyn, it just a tad tedious until you get up Aran Benllyn.

It can be a bit deserted at times if anything went wrong, but I'm sure you
would not go out unprepared.

Mal Davies




Subject: Re: First Munro?
From: Duncan Gray (duncan@duncolm.co.uk)

H <planet@myddryn.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8fdpiq$pd9$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> > Do it.  I haven't climbed Wyvis myself but I understand it to be one
> > of the kinder Munros and it is much visited in the Summer.  If you
> > enjoy it then you have many other options - Beinn Dearg or the
> > Fisherfield hills nearby.  I am very jealous of your address!
> Don't be.  It's full of caravans, ignorant tourists and the like
> already!!:o(
> >

Hey, I just got back from there !

Anyway, the Inverness Mountaineering Club have a website at
http://www.btinternet.com/~mike.franklin/imc/IMC.html which might be
helpful.

Duncan Gray
homepage - www.duncolm.co.uk

also www.mountaineering-scotland.org.uk
The Mountaineering Council of Scotland






Subject: Re: GPS routes/software
From: Neal Milne (neal@njtm.freeservenospam.co.uk)


"Guy Austin" <guy.austin@unn.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:8fegud$1fk@dax.unn.ac.uk...
> I'm sure regulars here will be fed up with this topic but as I'm new
here...
> What is the recommended method/software that I should use to program my
> Garmin eTrex . Thanks

I can recommend GPS Utility to be found at
http://homepages.enterprise.net/murphy/gpsu/download.html

Neal







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